Welcome to the painter marketing mastermind podcast. A show created to help painting company owners build a thriving painting business that does well over 1 million in annual revenue. I’m your host, Brandon Pierpont, founder of painter, marketing pros and creator of the popular PC A educational series. Do grow marketing for painters. In each episode, I’ll be sharing proven tips, strategies and processes from leading experts in the industry on how they found success in their painting business. We will be interviewing owners of the most successful painting companies in North America and learning from their experiences in this series titled painter turned big business owner will Reyes of Battle Bourne.
Painting will be sharing how he has grown his painting company to over $5 million in annual revenue and will be providing some creative options for other owners. Looking for explosive growth. In this episode, episode, one will, will discuss the mental transition he has made from painter to business owner and the hurdles he has needed to overcome along the way. In episode two, we will discuss how to create a killer client experience that builds a repeatable and profitable book of business for your painting company. In episode three will is going to outline some of the application tools, tricks and styles to paint that have allowed his team to create superior results for their clients and earn an enviable reputation in his local marketplace.
In episode four will, will lay out his approach to employee retention and how maintaining key team members has allowed for sustained growth. And in the final episode, episode five will is going to deep dive into how to think about adding other trades or widgets to your painting business. When is it a good idea? And when is it likely Shiny Object syndrome? If you want to ask real questions related to anything in this podcast series, you can do so on our exclusive painter marketing mastermind podcast form on Facebook.
Just search for painter marketing mastermind podcast form on Facebook and request to join the group or type in the URL, facebook. com/groups/painter marketing mastermind. Again that URL is facebook. com/groups/painter marketing mastermind. There you can ask those questions directly by tagging him with your question. So you can see how anything discussed here applies to a particular painting company. What’s up will hold up, buddy. We are finally doing it. Uh Yeah, we we’ve been talking about this for a little bit. So yeah, I’m glad we got our schedule synced up and uh hopefully we can uh help some people out there that you uh you, you know, you pointed out that the demand was high.
People were were really pushing me to get you on the podcast. I pushed them off as long as humanly possible. The threats of, of, yeah, canceling the podcast they’re gonna list anymore. We want, will we want, will just showing up in my email and text every single day. So here you are. Yeah, I appreciate that. I think it was me putting on everybody’s hat during my last podcast. So I made sure to display everybody’s on my wall and everybody’s time shine. You know. Uh There is no one place better than the other, although somebody might say at the centerpiece is more important, but nobody has uh one place better than the other.
I love them all equally. Uh The stuff I get from people is always awesome. You know, Nick sent me a bag of goodies and I’ve got tons of stuff on it and a bunch of chat keys and mugs that I hold dear to my heart. So when people do send me that stuff, I do make sure it has a home here and not just get stuffed into just the drawer or something. So I make sure I use everybody’s stuff, you know, down to the shot glasses, to the copy mugs, even down to the knives.
So, uh this is from T Janning man out there in uh if anybody knows that crazy son of a gun with nice stuff, Jessie. Yeah, Jesse. Yeah, a little plug for Jessie Ramos. Uh So everything anybody sends me, I make sure to use at least one. So they know it wasn’t just talk, you send me a sweater, I promise you, I’m wearing it, um, when it’s freezing outside cause I don’t usually wear jackets regardless. Uh, if you send me a cup, I’m gonna drink out of you.
Send me shot glass and I’m sure gonna take it. If you send me a notebook, I will use it. I promise you that. Uh, and so, uh, if you do send me stuff, don’t think it just gets disregarded. It doesn’t think it’s used all these hats I’ve worn at least once too. So, so, so much stuff. I love it, man. I’m gonna send you AAA size L sweater. You, oh, you want to be like red, huh? Yeah. Red. Sent me a sweater. So damn small man. I, I had to go on diet for two weeks before I could put it on and, and show anybody.
Yeah, that’s funny. Yeah. When we were at PC, I made sure I was lean and mean. And finally I wore it the first day. I couldn’t find red and I found him the second day and I was like, see, I wore your sweater is like, oh really? It might. And then I had to pull that thing off because I was like, because he had sent me two sweaters. I said, hey, man, I told you I’m a double X. He goes, oh I’ll send you another one sends me another one.
Same single act and I go, what are you doing? He goes, oh, you could pull it off. And I was like, oh, here we go. So uh shout out to red. Thank you for keeping me on my diet buddy. All right, Kristen. Cut this thing off me. We, we showed it, that’s what it was. Yeah. And then she worked the rest of the trip when she got called because I’m telling you, I had to peel myself out of it. Like it’s like a, like a condiment. I’m telling you, student small.
It’s funny. Um All right. So today we’re talking about mindset. Uh I think a good place to start would be just your background man a little bit about, about who you are, how you got into the trade, what, what your company does, where you’re at and then we can dive in. Uh Yeah, I started with a long, long ago as, as many people probably here. I don’t know. Uh I never wanted to be a painter. I was in the bar business, you know, I owned the bar slash uh venue, you know, we’ve got 300 live acts, you know, my hearing has suffered because of it since um I do a lot of this now and when people see me out um because I just didn’t take care of it cause I thought I was always gonna be the bar business and where are you based?
Uh Reno Nevada Sparks Nevada Tahoe area. So, you know, I thought I didn’t care. I was always gonna be the bar business cause I loved it. You know, one day I hired a guy to paint the inside of my house and he did and we became friends and we became gym buddies and for years we lived together and then I had to, uh I had, uh my partners in the bar business decided to get divorced and that kind of put us in a bad spot. So we ended up selling it off and then shutting it down.
And, uh, I needed to go to work. And my, uh, girlfriend slash wife currently, uh, said I wanna go to Mexico and I said, well, money’s a little tight cause she wasn’t working either and she was like, we’ll figure it out. So I go to my gym buddy and said, hey, man, I need to make a couple 1000 bucks. Can you help me out with some work? And he’s like, yeah, I got that said, OK, cool. So three miserable weeks later, I was, you know, headed off to Mexico.
I mean, we had to sand this most tedious thing. I was doing things I probably shouldn’t have been doing with no experience, you know, sanding mission style doors to the absolute tiniest of, you know, millimeters. So I didn’t burn the edges and round them out and things. I didn’t know what I was doing. I was there miserable, went to Mexico for 10 days and came home and hung out, get a call for my buddy, Shane Hunter. And he goes, hey, uh, when are you coming back? He’s like, you know, we got a lot of work.
I go. Oh, yeah, man, I’m not coming back pain. He’s not for me. And he’s like, well, hey, man, this is a good business and he’s like, you know, um, that was the worst I’ve ever had it in 20 years. And I was like, well, I used to hunt pool tables in the back of a day. A diesel tractor trailer at 100 and 20 degrees. I said, all right, I’ll, I’ll give it a go. Six months later, I had all my own tools, bought a truck, you know, a couple of months after that, him and I were butting heads cause he was an old fashioned painter that from the south.
And you know, he had this thick accent and I cut the straightest lines in the business. I have, I have the fastest brush in the West will I know him better than me. Ask for painter. Well, I started learning some things on my own and I disagreed. And so we parted ways and I told some people and uh, they told some people and, and I started painting on my own. I had one employee who was a deaf guy that didn’t know anything about painting. And then my dog and we, you know, we painted out of a little Ford Ranger.
So if anybody’s in a Ford Ranger currently, I’m telling you it gets better. And so I did that and then we just, we started booking business and that Christmas I had two weeks off. I remember. Oh, man, this is nice. I got two weeks off that I could live this life making cash, making money. In the meantime, I was bartending at a nightclub. They had picked me up. Um some people think I was bouncing but I was bartending on a night because when I tell people I work at a nightclub, they go, oh, were you a bouncer?
And I said no, what would you do? I’m like, well, I was a bartender. Oh you bartender. I’m like, why would you think bouncer if you don’t know will and you’re not watching. This will is huge. I’m not huge. I’m just a bigger fellow, but bouncer, bouncer fits my look of fully tattooed and a beard and everything. So that’s the people’s uh assumption. And so I was making $1500 cash there and making all my cash painting houses. So I was like, he is a kite, you know, I was making 1003 $3000 a week.
I mean, and that was good money, you know, 1314 years ago I had hair that has since left me. Um stress of being AAA father and a business. And uh that was it. I thought this was the greatest thing since sliced bread. And I was like, you know what, I’m out of the bar business, I’m gonna be AAA painter. So I faded out of the bar business. Um You know, my son turned three. By the time I started making the decision to leave on Halloween, he said, dad don’t go to work.
And I said, well, I have to go. It’s Halloween. And I walked in and I told my boss slash friend slash mentor, uh one of the greatest men I ever knew. And I said, I’m done. And he’s like, what’s going on? I said, I can never work another holiday here. And he goes, what’s are you OK? Is everything all right? I said, I told him what my son said and he goes, I’ll never ask you again. He’s like, I understand, I’ll never ask you again. Well, and then uh I worked in New Year’s Eve that New Year’s Eve and I was like, I’m done.
I was like, I can’t do it no more. And he’s like, what’s going on? So I just drank two Red Bulls and I can’t keep up and he was like, OK, I get it. It’s time to go and I go, it’s time to go. Meanwhile, Kristen was bartending next to me and she’s just blowing by me because she’s not painting all day long at, at the time. She wasn’t, she eventually came over but, you know, there she is in a corset and most people don’t know Kristen when she’s looking like a, you know, a showgirl corset and her chest is blowing out and full face makeup and the hair and the, the heels and she’s like, what’s going on, old man?
And I’m like, I’m done. That’s it. Call it for the old guy and that was the end of it. I didn’t bartend anymore there. So that, so you had man, so many comments. Uh I’m gonna, I’m gonna trace all the way back for something you said about minutes ago. Uh The girlfriend, wife currently, I think I’ve even told you this before. I always listen for how people say that because I, I had one time you don’t like, know how to say it. At least I didn’t like it’s your wife but she wasn’t your wife and you say wife.
But it’s confusing. So I had one time in a, in, in like a speech I was giving said like my, my current wife and afterwards I heard like, ok, so is there an ex wife? Like what’s, what’s the plan behind it? And so I realize that’s not the way to say it. So I like how you said like my girlfriend, I think current girlfriend, future wife. That was a good, a good way of putting that because my wife is not the way I still call her. My girlfriend sometimes and she’s like, when are you gonna start calling me, your wife because we’ve been together 28 years, you know, six months and 30 days.
And so it’s like, I’m not keeping score but you be my girlfriend most of the time, like, nine and 100 years. Yeah, that’s my life, I think. Five years now. So, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, I mean, for, you know, 20 plus years I always call her my girlfriend and so that was the funny about it. Yeah. Now the Halloween thing too, like +11 of the things I’ve noticed is people like events are planned on and, and like not bars, like bars, obviously it’s a holiday. People are gonna wanna go out whatever.
But I mean, even business events will sometimes get planned on Halloween. I will never, if you listen to this, you will, you, you want me or other people like me to come to your event, I will never come to an event on Halloween that requires me to be away from my kids while they’re young because there’s such a thing as trick or treating and you should do it. So I get for you deciding that that’s the line in the sand, man. I think it’s awesome because you got to draw a line somewhere and being away in those pivotal malls.
That, that, that line. That is way too far. I, I agree with you, you know, um, sometimes, you know, as, as you’re a painter, you know, as you start being a painter and you think, you know, this is the career I want and then you work for somebody or you just start out and go on your own, you know, and this is not speaking to the people like um uh Jason in, in, in Texas or Brad in Michigan like cause they were, they start out painters, you know, they have a different mindset.
But if you were like me and you had a brush in your pocket and then, you know, you went there and picked up the five gallon buckets and you were at the paint store at 6:30 a.m. and Shan Williams, you know, uh when you started out, you made a conscious decision and a lot of people currently do. Um And I’ll last challenge people to really take a look at it. They put their family second because it’s easy to put them second because they understand the most. But the time is never given back, you know, and I gave up three years of being with my, uh my son and, and my wife uh for Halloween, you know, oh, he’s one, he doesn’t get it and I’d go to work it around, I’d leave them around 1003 at 10 and then, you know, he’d go to bed.
And so the first year and the second year and the third year when he could talk, I was like, never again. And so I started making a conscious effort to start putting my family first because the first couple of years and people may criticize me for this. And that’s OK. I didn’t make them a priority. I made building the, the business a priority and making sure I could provide for them. And so you can get to a point where that’s understandable, but you can’t keep doing that for ever and ever and on and on.
Yeah, and it’s a tough balance and one of the things, it’s something I, I actually used to struggle with still probably a little bit. Um but that balance between success and providing for your family and financial stability and, and kind of meeting your own career ambitions versus actually being there physically present, providing time, which is really the most important thing for your family. Um But at the beginning when you’re starting out, if you can’t, if you’re gonna get evicted, you know, if you can’t, if you don’t have groceries, like there is an, there is an obligation that needs to be met some minimum, but at some point, you need to, to draw a line in the sand.
The thing that I did that I think worked really well early on was I focused on quality versus quantity. So if the quality is gonna be limited, if like if the quantity is gonna be limited, I’m gonna be super dialed in. During that one hour. I get a day when maybe I want five hours. But I’m gonna make it really, really count and then try to expand that over time. Yeah, I agree. You know, and as a person who started out in the blue collar side of things, when I would have people educating me on that, I would just, you know, I didn’t come from a rich family.
You know, we lived in a car at some point in our life and you know, when I was growing up, we had to decide what we, my parents had to decide. Ok, well, in the winter time we’re gonna pay the power bill and then the summer time we’re gonna pay the water bill and we just did without one or the other. And so, you know, these are hard lessons that I learned, you know, that’s who they make you in your life. Um But you know, as you grow older, it’s a lot easier for guys like myself and people who are still operating a painting business and painting at the same time, it’s easier for us to, to work hard and you know, we don’t have that skill set or the mindset and it’s not something you can’t learn cause I did obviously, but it took a long time and a big lesson to learn that I needed to start working, you know, smarter, not harder, but it’s so ingrained to us because that’s who we are.
You know, if you need something done. Guess what? I, I gotta put 10 hours in and you get to 10 hours, you’re like, I got two more hours left. Well, you put two more hours in and that’s what I was doing. You know, them days are gone and sometimes I get them every now and again, you know, sometimes the paint crew comes in, you know, they say, hey, boss, won’t you come out with us today and sometimes I will, you know, I did it with 2500 weeks ago. I was out with them, you know, on a Friday 2500 to 21500, but we got it knocked out and it was fun and you know, about everybody, lunch and drinks and snacks and we all had a good time with it.
But I mean, I’m not opposed to working another 23 hour day with my guys, but it’s not something I have to do anymore. So, I mean, I’ve got that. So, so let’s, let’s get into that transition. And so you, you, you were doing the bartending, start doing painting. You were kind of doing it both for a while. Realized the bartending is too big of a sacrifice. When all in on the painting, you have one helper. Um driving the Ford Ranger, you’re grinding, uh growing something weren’t really taught how to do it.
Um But you’re growing something and so now your mindset is work hard, work hard, hustle, grind, work hard on the next guy. And I’m gonna lift my, myself up by my bootstraps and I’m gonna get it done. But at some point working hard in and of itself is not the answer and actually could be counterproductive because now you got to change your mind. How did you start doing that? Um, so when we started talking, we, you know, you said, hey, let’s do this. And I was like, uh, you know, I don’t know if I have anything enough to say, you know, and you’re like, I think people could hear what you have to say and you know what?
Maybe I do, maybe I have a good perspective about it and we pushed forward through this and I talked to some friends and I was like, hey, what do you think about this? And some guys like uh Chris Mole made a great strong recommendations. Ron Adams paint tigers like, you know, Chris Mo Moll’s painting, you know, my wife Chris and we all talked about it in terms of this podcast of this podcast. Yeah, because I wanted to make sure I was giving out the most raw information and the most correct information to me.
Now, everything I say is not gonna be perfect for everybody. It’s not gonna work for everybody. But I can tell you this if you’re painting right now and there’s a brush in your hand and you’re listening to this, I will probably be the most accurate person that you’ve listened to in. Probably a long time because I’ve been there, I’ve been on a ladder with my ears in a podcast, you know, one ear in a podcast and the other one making sure no one’s falling off a ladder or when a client comes out.
And so it was important for me to make sure I was bringing some content that was gonna be relatable. And I can tell you what the first step for me and I wrote it down was like, it came in an order of like, you know, education, pride, ego, mentors, action. And then, you know, painting, you know, and then the family was the uh the reason why we did it all for me. There are people out there that don’t have kids and there’s nothing wrong with that. They don’t have a family and, you know, they’re just loving life and that’s great too.
But this is what did it for me, you know, and my first step was education, you know, Josh was all right, which was probably my fourth, my first mentor, whether he wants to admit it or not or, you know, if he wants to let anybody know. Um I met Josh at a Sherman Williams uh like a continuing education. It was like, come see this guy, you know, he’s doing great in L A and he gave out some advice and um nobody in that room wrote down anything.
Nobody in that room really took to heart what he said, which was blowing me away because here’s a guy who’s doing insanely well, who’s having Sharon Williams flying across the country just to talk. And so I wrote down what he said and I started doing what he said and then, but things started turning out real well. You know, he gave me three solid pieces of advice and if anybody’s ever seen Josh speak, he’ll, he’ll say the same things. And the most important thing he said was like, um write a story about yourself in the day in the life of five years from now, not how you get there.
Just a story. And he explained and he showed his story and you’ve ever seen Josh speak? He has his little story written down. He’s got plastic and unwraps it every time he speaks in front of a crowd. Second thing he said was, it’s very important to have a mentor and uh to mentor somebody and which I agreed cause I did a lot of that too. And the other various things that I did through my life. And so uh the unbeknownst to Josh, he was gonna become one of my mentors, whether he liked it or not.
Now, maybe he wasn’t a super fan of me, but like a, like a, like a small fungus I’ll grow. And then the last thing he said, and business was going, what I followed the first step and followed the second step and business was going great and I didn’t really take off until I accepted his third piece of that ice. And his vice was give back, give back as much as you can. If you can give a dollar, give a dollar and you get $25 you can give $2100. If it’s 1003 you can give to 2100 and you may make sure to stress out like, don’t lose your car payment, don’t give away your rent money or your mortgage.
But if it, you can afford to give away something and get back to your community, it’s not i it was your job to do it. And I remember our first give back was with a uh community leader of some fitness chick in town and she would always do these things and she called her painter. I happened to know her, her husband and my wife were models together. And so we’ve been friendly and I did it with her and then business got busier and then we gave back some more and business got even busier.
So for us, it was putting out as much good energy as we can. And those were the three things that I took. And I hold on this day, we do two massive give backs a year. Um you know, with our community and we continue to give back and it’s something we’re really proud of. And so that was our first thing was, you know, listening to him the education came first, you know, he, and the other thing he said you should go to the PC A, I highly recommend joining it.
I went, I think, two or three years and I never saw Josh there, you know, and then one day I ran into one of his guys and we were like, hey, hey, hey, it’s you, it’s you. And I’d make a couple of phone calls from him for a year. Nothing too serious. But then I was like, guess what? We’re best friends. And so it or not, whether he wanted to believe it or not or, or take my friendship or not, I can tell you I was like, uh yeah, guess what?
You’re at the time. I was like, you’re a big reason for why I’m here. Now we talk about education and then my next talk is like, I was prideful when I got there because I was a fool. I had of a massive ego and I was ignorant too because to me, I got to PC A thinking, fuck, you know, I’m doing about a million dollars. I’m living high on the hog. I’m making great money. I got to PC A and I didn’t realize how small I was.
You know, I was walking around and you go to find out you’ve got guys doing 25 million, 2100 million, 5 million, 10 million. I met first guys I met, there were doing 15 million apiece in commercial repaints and uh that we’re still friends today. You know, they’re out of Texas. They’re good guys, you know, uh Jason Parrott and, uh not to be confused with Jason Phillips, with Jason Parrott and uh Brian Shannon. And so they’re good dudes and, uh, you know, they gave me some solid advice and I kept coming back to the PC A. Uh, you know, some things happened to me and that was my, that was my pride to how to get checked.
You know, I had such a big ego about everything thinking I was just, you know, king of the hill here, boy, man, I was a fool walking in there. I just hope no one thought me as uh as big of a fool as I really thought of myself. So, you know, you go to the PC A and you learn, you know, um I know people that don’t go back there anymore because it’s not a great experience for them, but it’s always been a good one for me.
And so without the PC A and the people that I met and friends and then along the way, I picked up more people that would mentor me whether they wanted it or not. You know, I met, I met a all these unwilling mentors along the line and friends. If I’ve got something to learn from you, I promise I’m gonna take it regardless if you want to give it to me or not. You know, I’ll catch you slipping, you accidentally went to hit end on the phone and put me through voicemail, set up your time and everything you got to teach me.
So, you know, that was it. You know, I, I met a robust round Jason Phillips which people don’t know today um because he wasn’t as prominent as he was when I first met him, but when I first met him, he was a round face. Uh you know, uh uh uh a chubbier version of what he is not the lean felt uh you know, uh 1000 days straight working out machine that he is today currently. But whether Jason wanted to or not, I was like, this guy has a lot to learn or this guy has a lot to teach to him.
So I sucked him to getting his phone number and he was like, OK, and then that’s it. I was like, guess what, Jason, yeah, you’re my best friend now. And he’s like, OK. And so I pestered him until he let me come to his shop. And those were like, those are the guys that mentor me and, you know, and I don’t get a ton of their time when I do get it. But when I do get it, it’s, it’s very important because uh and those weren’t the only two mentors that I had.
But those were the two biggest painting mentors I’d say were the biggest influence for me in the painting world. I have other people that call that, you know, do insanely well in life and they’ve got nothing to do with painting. You know, a good mentor, a friend of mine, uh, picks up fry oil and sells it, you know. And so, you know, another one of mine is a landscaper. So it’s, if you can find mentors, find them because I can tell you it’s more important than you would realize that somebody’s out there already paying for the lesson that you’re about to learn in an expensive and they’re real expensive.
Yeah, lessons are very, very expensive to learn on your own. So I think one of the like the key tenets of success that I, I think almost the key tenet of success is just action, right? Like persistent. That’s the next thing. That’s the next thing right? After mentors, see you and I are, we’re sharing the same brain, we’re right there. But like your, your pursuit of mentors like relentless pursuit and ability to um withstand rejection, whether direct or implied uh from people is, is, is persistent, is persistent action, right?
And, and you, you talk to all these painting company owners who, who lament Xy or Z, right? Their, their market isn’t good or this isn’t good. And, and you ask like, hey, have you, you called every, every past lead, every past customer, have you knocked on doors? Oh, no, we don’t do that. Why don’t you knock on doors? Ask them like a monthly. How many doors have you knocked on? Zero? Like doing the hard things calling people and accidentally one day, maybe they’re not just like, oh, ignore this guy instead of accidentally patch you through.
And all of a sudden you learn information that saves you like a year, two years of mistakes because you got on the phone with Jason Phillips for 20 minutes. I mean, that, yeah, a lot of people are doing that. I agree. Everybody called Jason Phillips. We’re gonna give you his phone number. We, we’re gonna blossom. 8675309. Jason, he’s a solid guy, right? I mean, you can call him, but if he answers, that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s a thin one. If he answers, you know, it’s got to keep, you know, so, like I said, it’s like if, if I have something to learn from you, I’m, I’m, I’m gonna see if I can get that information out.
And, you know, I’ve been uh fortunate enough to um uh end up becoming friends with these people uh regardless of how our relationship starts, regardless of if they like me or not, you know, I’m gonna grow on to you. And so that was the most important thing getting mentors. And then, you know, once you get those mentors, you talk about, like you just said, action. Well, it’s like they’ve learned these lessons that cost thousands and tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars, they’ve already learned these lessons, you know.
And so, and if they’re willing to give them for free, you’d be a fool not to take it. And so the best part about that is ok, you take it. Ok, great. Now you can implement it. Well, that, that’s the best part and that’s the hardest part too for most guys because they’ll take it and go. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I’m gonna do this and then they get stuck. They, they don’t do it or they do it the opposite way or they think they know better or, you know, this won’t work in my, my area.
It, it doesn’t work. I, I mean, I was that person too. You know, I learned some long hard lessons, uh, being that guy and thinking I knew more, you know, we worked with a company called Pentech out of uh Minnesota, real great company. I can’t say enough positive things about them. We don’t work together with them anymore. We had, we went our own ways. We had some differences, but I can tell you right now they incredible training program and they said the same thing to me. Hey, will, we’ve got this program.
It works. Trust us. I didn’t do it. I thought I knew better that won’t work in my area. It won’t work in my area. Well, what I was doing wasn’t working so I tried what they were doing and guess what it worked. So, you know, as you’re growing, you still have this, this, this, this pride, this, this bravado and this ego sometimes that needs to be checked and um sometimes we forget about it and it, and it’s a lesson you shouldn’t forget, you know, you should possibly learn apologies.
And I did not search this. I had. So I think the, I think finding people who are well beyond you is a good way to check that, right? It, it checks your ego shows you’re not that great. There’s always somebody beyond you and let’s, let’s like Jeff Bezos or something, which uh nobody I’ve ever talked to is then we have what I know that we have people who are beyond us uh in the, 53% agree, 100% agree, you know. Um And that’s, and that’s what’s great about it is that there’s so many guys in the painting community and I say community because, you know, I have friends that are electricians.
I have friends that are plumbers and framers. And when I talk about the community that I’m a part of with the PC A and the paint community and, and, and working with, uh you know, um uh contractor freedom. Like that’s a true community. You don’t see a lot of that in a lot of businesses. And as far as I understand when I talk about it, my electrician friends are like, what, what, what are you talking about? They don’t understand, you know, my plumbing buddies, my H VAC guys, they don’t, they’re like, what, what do you mean?
There’s a thing and then like, yeah, don’t you have it? Oh, yeah, we have one but we don’t, we don’t do what you guys do, which is comical to me because, um, those industries are killing it. So, um, it’s nice to know you can lean on the other guys that, you know, are in your same trade and, and they’re willing to help, you know, um, you know, like I said, in the beginning when I would call, like Josh up, you know, he wouldn’t answer the phone, but he was always great and kind about getting back to me, uh, maybe a day or two or a week or two later.
But he’d always get back to me, same thing with Jason, you know, and I got closer with these guys and so they answer the call, they don’t answer the call a little, maybe they’ll answer the call a little more, but they get back to me a lot faster than they used to, you know. And so it’s, I, I hope they understand it’s because I, uh, uh, how much I’ve learned from and how much I appreciate them. So, I mean, it’s, and I, and I truly do take what they say and what they’ve taught me and put it into action because every time I do, I, I’m always amazed, no matter how many times I’ve done it.
I always am amazed with going, oh, shit. Look at that. Well, here we are. Yeah. Yeah. It’s like they knew. That’s a great way to say it. I, I think you talking about too learning from people outside the painting industry. So a track is a great example. There’s so much, there’s so much farther along like the, the business professionalization, the marketing, the, the business mindset than painting as an industry. Uh So you can go and, and you can learn, you can go to trade shows. You can connect with successful H VAC business owners and, and obtain knowledge.
That’s beyond um how a lot of painters operate. I think one of the advantages of the painting industry is like you said, the electricians, HVAC, they, they think it’s kind of weird or they don’t have anything like that. They don’t have this tight knit community because painting is sort of Jason Perri says, like entering its renaissance period or it, it hasn’t, it’s not nearly as developed as these other industries you have, I think, greater access to the top thought leaders in the industry because it’s a little bit of a smaller pond right now versus for 1015 years from now, it might be harder for you to talk with people like Josh or Jason who are kind of leading the whole industry.
But right now you have access to those people. You should capitalize on that. Yeah. And um you know, it’s, um, it’s nice when you change the mindset. You know, I’ve always wanted, you know, when you and I talked about it, we, we talked about, I think we talked about a podcast last year where I suggest we should talk about it going from blue collar to white collar because it’s such a hard transition about taking your paint brushing and keeping it in the box and your, your, your whatever you wanna call it, your bag, your grip.
There’s 100 different words for it that these guys all use. You know, I always just called it my toolbox. But putting that in there and leave it in there is probably one of the hardest things I ever had to do, you know. Um Did it make you feel unproductive, insanely unproductive? You know, I, I knew I could be out there helping my crew get done faster, you know, like you’re losing, losing money by not doing it. Well, you think to yourself, like if I was out there, we can be done faster, I can start this other job.
You know, me not being out there and then you talk yourself into justifying why you go out there and start painting and then you put all the other stuff to the side, the clerical work that you don’t understand, you know, uh the, the, the, the payroll you don’t wanna deal with, you know, the taxes you don’t wanna pay, you know, the hr you don’t wanna deal with all that stuff, man. If you’re a painter like I am, you don’t wanna deal with that. Hr. Yeah, dude, show up, go to work.
That’s hr, that’s how I was, that’s how I figured it out. You know, that’s how I was, you know, brought up, you know, taxes. Wait a minute, I gotta pay the government. They weren’t here working with me. How much do they want? Oh, you know, insurance. Come on, man. I was good at answering the phone because I could answer that person’s question and go here. Let me come out and I was great at selling him the paint job and I was great at doing the paint job, man.
But I was garbage at running the, uh, the business. You know, you know, one of the things I learned from these guys was like, just part of what you don’t want to do, which you’re not good at hire out what you want. I mean, that was probably some of the best advice you ever got, man. Yeah, you could still paint, hire out your hr oh, I could do that. I didn’t know that. Hire out your, you know, your answering service. I don’t have to answer the phone every time I’m on a ladder.
I didn’t know I could do that, you know, hire out your payroll. Somebody else can do payroll. And I paid my guys cash money for three years when I first started. Yeah. You know, they write me a check will raise who I go. Cash in. I just pay my guys off Friday afternoon. Here’s cash, here’s cash, cash, all these things. No taxes, no insurance. I was a fool, you know. Uh, I mean, not on purpose but just because I was ignorant and more than anything, you know, I had this ego that I wanted to.
I’m not paying taxes. The man’s not gonna get me. The man got me. I’m paying taxes. I promise you. You know, life is a lot better now that I don’t have to go out and paint every day. But it was a hard lesson to let that brush down because like you said, it feels like you’re not getting work done, you’re not being productive because that’s our first instinct as painters is like, well, I can just go paint that faster. But at the end of the day, that’s not your job anymore.
If you decide you want to make this a business, a functioning company, you know, you gotta take yourself out of the field and start changing your mindset, educating yourself, taking on mentors and actually listening to what they tell you to do or suggest you to tell you what they suggest you to do and then putting that stuff into action. Those are the hardest lessons I had to learn. Yeah. And I think it’s, it’s important to know because for a lot of people. The goal is a different lifestyle and the goal also usually involves more money, right?
They wanna have a more successful business. They’re, they’re making it a more comfortable living. You are probably when you’re gonna take these initial steps, temporarily, make less money because you’re not gonna get to that next project as quickly, you’re paying another painter to replace you when you could just do it and do a better job. You’re sitting here trying to learn or, or hire the right hr payroll company. Now you’re paying them right? Or maybe you’re trying to figure it out. You do it yourself, but you’re not good at it because you’ve never learned how to do it.
But the things that you are finding consistently uh that you’re, you’re bumping into and you don’t want to do and you, you run to painting or run to something else that you like to do. That’s usually the constraint in your business. So you either need to do it or find someone to do it, but you are not gonna make as much money for a little while. It’s a take a step back to take three steps forward and you just have to accept that. Yeah. Um Somebody gave me uh some words of encouragement and they said, if you want to grow and I said, yes, well, they said you gotta take a pay cut before you can take a pay Rs. And I always made less before I made more, you know, I wanted to, I remember I used to pay myself 500 bucks a week.
I was like, cool. I’m making 500 bucks a week. I make $1500. Bartending. I can do this. I got burnt out of bartending cause pain was suck out of my day. So it was at the painter, marketing pros hat. We’re going. No, definitely not. That one will stay up forever. That’s the strength of the somebody else I’m telling you. That was uh oh my goodness. Oh Wait, holy shit. One. Took the other one down. OK. Yeah, Phil, I’m sorry, you fell from the top buddy. Uh Phil from Tama.
He’s a good buddy. Uh This guy has taught me a real great lessons in life. Uh He may not know it but he has. And then uh this guy right here, sorry, Nick your house. Your heart was a uh a casualty of Phil. So uh if you had a problem with Phil, hey, Nick, if you got beef, just take it up with Phil. He’s not that tough. Phil. Phil is your one of your best friends, whether he knows it or wants it or uh Phil is. Phil became my best.
I think I became Phil’s best friend. We were in Nashville, Tennessee and we were with another painter that was getting pretty wild and he was starting to uh draw a crowd of guys that weren’t comfortable with his brand of, of drinking. Um And so Phil went up there to, to sweet talk him and it didn’t look like it was going well. So I circle behind him, gave him a nod, took off my watch tied, tied my shoes real tight. And then he, he looked at me. He was like, oh, ok.
Will’s one of us and so nothing ever happened. Phil’s smooth talker. I mean, I should have never doubted him, but I know him very well. And then afterwards he walked over, he’s like, hey, man, I like that. And I said, yeah, I got your back and he’s like, not a lot of guys can do that. Most guys wouldn’t do it. And I’m like, well, I grew up in the street so nothing like some good moral support from, from a best friend. Yeah. So, well, I mean, Phil became my best friend when he stole my jacket.
A lot of people don’t know this story, but we were in Nashville and we went to top golf and it was cold and I um had an extra jacket in my backpack and I said, uh, oh yeah, I’ve got an extra jacket and he goes, oh, thanks, man. I didn’t think it would be this cold and he took it and he was so proud because it fit him. He’s like this never happens. No one ever has anything that fits me, you know, and then at the end of the day and we are leaving and then I forgot about the jacket.
And then Kristen says, hey, can I get Will’s jacket? He goes, no. And so he stole that thing from me and uh he’ll wear it every now and again. Then you can tag me in it or he’ll send me a picture like, hey, look how cool this jacket is. That’s how we became best friends. So uh still uh yeah, Phil is a solid, solid guy man. If anybody knows Phil Thomma painting, please, uh He’s definitely worth a phone call too, man. That guy has a ton of brilliance to, to, to, to teach people.
And the last year was his first PC A which is so weird because so many people know Phil th Yeah. So you guys can, for all listeners, you can hear a theme here, which is a lot of other people that will’s learned from and connected with and given back to and it’s, you know, networking don’t live on an island like success is not built. You, you don’t build it yourself. Nobody does. So now, like I said before, one of the most important lessons from Josh was to take mentors on and then mentor people.
And so I took that to heart and I, you know, as many people as to help me, I try to help as many people, you know, I’ve, I’ve been on countless phone calls with people and other painting contractors, you know, answering what questions I have cause I don’t have all the questions. But I can tell you if you’re just starting out and you’re barely doing a million, I’ve got probably all the answers to your biggest questions, you know. And then I ask guys like Jason and Josh and my other buddies, like when I have $3 million questions, $5 million pains that, you know, it’s like we are all suffering somewhere.
You know, someone’s already just done all the pain of the, of the lessons. So if you can find somebody that’s done it already, I implore you to cash in as fast as you can because it’s only gonna save you time, which you can’t get back and money, which you don’t like to spend. Yeah. And I think the, I think there’s another really good point here which a lot of people overlook is, is it costs can cost you thousands, right? Or potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars to learn this stuff on your own.
There’s also the opportunity cost and I think that’s just so easy to ignore because it’s invisible. But if you sit down and you do Josh’s um first recommendation or, or maybe as a second, like writing out the day, you know, five years from now the day is probably not, you’re grinding through that paint project to try to start the next one earlier. Uh You sit right down the day and then you, you backtrack like let’s say you’re, you know, you have multiple crews or maybe you have just one right now.
Ok. How much money, how many projects are you completing? What does that look like? Backtrack to today? Now, imagine you don’t go do those hard things. You don’t go figure out your payroll. You don’t figure out your hr you don’t figure out your marketing. You just get back out there, get on the, on the brush and just keep grinding from here to five years from now. And then imagine you do from here and you take a back, you know, a step back and compensation for the next three months, six months a year, maybe as you put all the pieces in place, then the next four years you, your opportunity cost is massive if you don’t take action, but it’s invisible.
So it’s easy to ignore it or not to even think it’s real. Well, you’re, you’re 100% correct on that. And the sad part about it is is that all that time? You could be capitalizing you completely wasted and you can never get that time back. You know, you can’t reverse the clock. You know, tomorrow is always gonna be tomorrow and yesterday is never coming back to you. So you might as well invest your time instead of blowing it. So I agree with you 100% right there. That’s probably the biggest thing that if anybody takes away from this is that like your time is so precious.
And if you’ve got the opportunity to capitalize on a lesson that somebody else has already learned, please, please please do it. Yeah. But then like you said, with the action because information has never been more accessible, right? There’s um right now there’s, there’s contractor Impact Tanners, Tenners putting on his event. A lot of good speakers. I’m speaking of that tomorrow, I just spent my morning listening to a bunch of people, listen to Tommy Mello. Um listen to a, to a bunch of great speakers and, and that’s great.
Like if I just hear it and I don’t implement it, I don’t implement anything Tommy said about training, incentivizing the team building, you know, building small scale up and, and the way he did it, then what did it really do for me? And I think the, there’s so many youtube, there’s so many books, there’s so many things of podcast, people listening to this podcast, like, thank you for listening. But if you don’t actually ever implement anything, you might as well just start turning on some music because then nothing happens until you take action.
I agree. I agreed with you 100%. I was that person for many years. I would hear it, listen to it and then just think I knew more, you know, and then you would, I started to turn a corner about five years ago where I just started submitting to what I was taught and then I started working and then I get a little more and I started working and then I started making more calls to the people that I, you know, admire in the business. And I started working and then I started implementing the action and then, you know, I started realizing that and for some people, this is OK. But for me, painting became more of a job and it wasn’t, you know, uh it wasn’t a business, it wasn’t a company and that’s really what I wanted.
You know, in my opinion, I took my painting job, turn it into a business and now we run it like a company and that gives me to more time to be with my family. Yeah. And that’s, you know, what’s the most important thing to me? Um, and so that to me is like, you can never get that back and this is coming from somebody, um, you know, who’s, um, I mean, I’m a die hard workaholic, you know, when people ask me all the time, like, hey, what do you do for fun?
And I’m like, what do I do for fun at work? I love it. You know, and they go, oh, man, you gotta paint. I go, I love painting people think it’s funny, you know, like, oh, really? I’m like, yeah. What are you doing this week? Oh, I gotta paint a house, you know, we couldn’t get it in the schedule and they wanted it done. So I said, yeah, I’ll go do it. You know, my team thinks it’s funny, but I love it, man. I love getting out to the house, meet new people, you know, shaking their hands, taking a house and then, you know, in a day or two making it look brand new.
Like that’s, that’s enjoyable for me. It’s very, it’s calm, it’s very simple. I don’t have to worry about the phone ringing. I don’t have to worry about answering questions about hr or you know, employees or hey, my PTO need study. I get all that and those are, things are great and that’s why it was easy for me to fall back into a brush and go. Oh Well, you know, it’s, I can just work harder because I enjoy it so much. Now, a lot of guys don’t do that and they’re, once they get out of the brush and never come back.
But for somebody like me who enjoys painting and there’s a lot of guys out there that, you know, run smaller businesses and they wanna keep it small and you know, I don’t want them to think we’re trashing on you cause that’s the last thing I would ever do because I love painting. You know, I enjoy painting. I enjoy it to the most. I love getting the fucking paint, love going to paint store. Saying how did the guys there love pulling up the house yanking out my tools and making somebody’s house look pretty, you know, and that’s what I do on the weekends or I’ll do it after hours because I enjoy it so much.
So, I mean, that’s, that to me is, is, is a testament to who I am and, and how we do things. Um, you know, I’m not just this guy that began to paint it and then all of a sudden overnight we’re doing, you know, 5 million in, in revenue like that didn’t happen, you know, I mean, I’m still a fucking dude with rough hands, you know, I, I was painting, I got, actually, I gotta paint today. Um I gotta go out and paint somebody’s garage door because they wanted it done ASAP.
And I said, OK, cool. Nobody wanted to take it on. So I said, fuck it, I’ll go do it. I didn’t care. Yeah, I think the um the, the point that you made too about how the painting it, it was more comfortable for you, right? And so you, it was easy for you to slip back into that. I think that’s what happens for a lot of people, not just with painting but anything in business again. It’s like that, that’s not hate that you keep bumping into. That’s like, ah and then so you go back to what you’re good at or what if you’re comfortable with or what you like doing, that’s probably your limiting factor right there.
So the, the everything you want is on the other side of your comfort zone. You have Yeah. 100. Yeah. You, you fucking could have been better, man. We all go back to what’s the easiest thing for us to do? And for a lot of us that paint, that was the easiest thing to do. I wanna do a payroll. I’d rather go paint because then you justify it. You gotta get this, we gotta get this job done. I, I gotta get out there so you can put on the back burner, you know?
Oh, did I pay the payroll taxes? I, I gotta get out there. I gotta get this job done or I won’t get the payroll and the money for the payroll taxes because I didn’t do it right. So, you know, when guys are listening to this, you’re not alone. I was there, you know, I slipped back into it like, you know, for many years. Um, and now I paint it because I enjoy it and I don’t know, it’s not a, it’s not mandatory for me anymore. It’s just such a choice, you know, when you can make it a choice for yourself.
That’s when, you know, you’ve really done something. You know, I don’t wanna tell you, I don’t tell people I’m successful, you know, but I’m grinding it out and where I’m having a good time and along the way it’s enjoyable. Yeah, I think a, a huge hallmark of success is is freedom of, of time and options, right? Like you do things because you want to do those things and you do them with the people with whom you want to do them. If you can live your life like that, you’re very successful.
Oh, then II, I do, you know, I, I, uh, I do. You know, and I’m fortunate enough to be surrounded by good people that believe in the, the, the core values of this, of this company and, and the vision that we all have together and, you know, they’re, they’re really good about, you know, just listening and, and, and trusting me and, and, and let me lead the ship and, you know, when I’m not making a smart decision there, they got no problems. Tell me about that either.
Sometimes I take their advice and sometimes we don’t, you know, but they’re always gonna uh back the team. And so that’s really nice. So, um you got guys out there that think they’re alone. You’re not, you got guys out there that are doing a million and you think you’re special, you’re not, I can tell you that right now. I used to think I was, but I will tell you this and at any point that you need help and then you think like you’re lost that you don’t got anybody else that’s ever been your, your position.
I promise you, I’ve been there. You’re more than welcome to reach out, shoot an email, shoot a comment or whatever. I don’t, I, I’ll get back to everybody than anybody, that individuals, I mean, I’ll never leave anybody hanging. Not intentionally, at least. Um So if somebody’s got questions, they need help, please don’t hesitate. Well, this is awesome, man. So we talked about starting with education, having to get rid of your pride and your ego. Um finding mentors and you wouldn’t have been able to do that if you had been so proud that they weren’t answering or calling you back right away.
That wouldn’t have worked. So you have to, you know, you got to educate like, ok, I’m not everything I thought that I was like, there’s a lot of opportunity for me to learn, get rid of the pride and ego so that you can actually take the steps, reach out, get the help that you need, get the mentors and provide mentorship on your way up, take action because of excuse me, because all of this is, is really irrelevant without actually taking action on it. Uh And then I think you had a plan and a family.
Uh final. I did all that for family. That was my goal to make sure I had more time with my family. You know, I put my family in the back room for the first three years of my son’s life and a lot of people will go, oh, well, you’ll regret it. And you know, the time you don’t spend with your family, you regret it. And, um, you know, I can understand from some people that’s a thing for them, but not for me. You know, my wife knew there was a sacrifice that was gonna be made to get us to the point where, you know, my wife hasn’t worked in three years.
She’s retired. You know, she drives around with the white SUV and the Starbucks and the bag. You know, that was her goal was to make sure she supported me and, and, and, and, and things that things we do, she knew she was gonna have to go, you know, every week and me not in bed with her cause I had to work and bartend and then she knew I was gonna work, you know, through people’s, uh, uh holidays, you know, Memorial Day, the, the birthday, she knew I was gonna have to do that and she accepted and she supported me and she knew along the way the payoff was to make sure that she retired.
You know, she and she did now she hangs out with the kids and drives around and make sure dinner is ready. So that was our goal and it’s not for everybody, but I can tell you that was important to us to make sure that I got my family put in the position that we didn’t have to worry about him, you know, because we grew up poor. I didn’t want to worry about the power bill or the water bill. And so she knew the sacrifices are gonna be made and she supported me and, you know, we’re happier for it.
Yeah, I love it. Well, we’re gonna, uh we’re gonna be doing some bleeping on this. This is so bad. Uh We wanna, we wanna make sure the podcast can continue to be on all the, all the primary platforms you cussing. I Yeah, I did a bunch. You. I think we just because you and I talked to you aren’t listening to it. Um But now this is awesome, man. Is there anything else as we wrap up this episode? Anything else you wanna, you wanna touch on, on this mindset shift?
You know, like the last thing I’d say you’re not alone, please reach out because again, promise you there’s help. I love it. Well, I appreciate you, man. I’m super excited for this series. Thank you for doing it. Uh I didn’t, I, I actually was asking you to do it. I wasn’t being harassed by a ton of people. That was a joke. I did want to do it with you. But dude, this was awesome, man. I appreciate you. Thank you.
If you want to learn more about the topics we discussed in this podcast and how you can use them to grow your painting business, visit PainterMarketingPros.com/Podcast for free training, as well as the ability to schedule a personalized strategy session for your painting company.
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Hey there, painting company owners. If you enjoyed today’s episode, make sure you go ahead and hit that subscribe button. Give us your feedback. Let us know how we did. And also if you’re interested in taking your painting business to the next level, make sure you visit the Painter Marketing Pros website at PainterMarketingPros.com to learn more about our services. You can also reach out to me directly by emailing me at Brandon@PainterMarketingPros.com and I can give you personalized advice on growing your painting business. Until next time, keep growing.