Welcome to the Painter Marketing Mastermind Podcast, the show created to help painting company owners build a thriving painting business that does well over 103 million in annual revenue. I’m your host, Brandon Pierpont, founder of Painter Marketing Pros and creator of the popular PCA Educational Series to grow marketing for painters. In each episode, I’ll be sharing proven tips, strategies and processes from leading experts in the industry on how they found success in their painting business. We will be interviewing owners of the most successful painting companies in North America and learning from their experiences.

In this series titled “Success Looks Different”, Shane Fast of Renew Painting will be discussing his surprising journey from ministry to painting, and the many lives he has impacted, lessons he’s learned, and counterintuitive approach he has taken along the way.  It is a 6-part series.

In this episode, episode 1, Shane will be discussing his unlikely path to painting and his bold vision for the future.

If you want to ask him questions related to anything in this podcast series, you can do so in our exclusive Painter Marketing Mastermind Podcast Forum on Facebook. Just search for “Painter Marketing Mastermind Podcast Forum” on Facebook and request to join the group, or type in the URL Facebook.com/groups/PainterMarketingMastermind. There you can ask them questions directly by tagging him with your question, so you can see how anything discussed here applies to your particular painting company.

Hey Brandon, thanks for having me. Thanks for joining, man. You and I have been talking about this for a while. Yeah, yeah, it’s good to get going. It is, brother. Your story is an interesting one. I know we’re gonna run this, this series in kind of a chronological way, but I also know there’s gonna be an incredible amount of unique points here. Uh, as we talked about, I’ve run quite a few of these podcasts, I think maybe 150 or so at this point. And, uh, you brought up stuff that no one has brought up before.

So I’m very excited for this series. Cool. I don’t know if that’s good or scary. Maybe a little bit of both, but that’s good. Yeah. So let’s get into the backstory. You know, you, you did not, um, You know, you did not decide that you wanted to run a painting company as a child. So it’s kind of, let’s talk about how we ended up here. Right, right. Yeah, that’s a very fair statement, definitely did not. Um, gosh, so, you know, I went to college. Finished college in 2004 with a biology degree, and I took all the pre-med stuff. Right.

Uh, just cruel and unusual punishment, something I enjoy apparently. Um, and, and so then I did a master’s in teaching, so I teach high school biology. I was playing a 5th year of football, and I, you know, wanted to do something productive. So I did that and ended up in vocational ministry after that. So I was in college doing college ministry for a few years and then my wife and I got married and 2007, early 2009, we moved out to the St. Louis area. There’s a city called East St. Louis, Illinois.

Um, city full of resilient, hardworking people, um, uh, a lot of things working against. The residents there, um, and a lot of challenges. And so it’s, you know, in a way, it’s kind of your typical impoverished, um, challenge, you know, structurally challenged kind of area in our country. And, uh, so that’s, so we started a ministry there and, and we were, I was coaching football, um, as a way to, to get to know the youth and invest in them. And that was So yeah, so we, there was nothing on our radar at all about painting.

It was, we want to have this part of the ministry, we want to grow this, we want to scale this, and so, you know, we’re doing that and fast forward. The late 2015. Just burned out, had to step away, kind of sabbatical, just try to recharge. And um we at that point, we still had the, the, the ministry we started, we had another nonprofit, we were doing buy and hold, fix and flip, real estate investing and employing inner city youth. To, uh, do a lot of those, uh, projects.

And, uh, you know, I learned a ton through that process about some the construction elements and project management things. And then we had a church plan. Um, so all these were kind of partnerships or direct oversight kind of things, they kind of worked together in an ecosystem of sorts, um, to try to create some holistic flourishing in the area we were in, but in my family, it was doing the opposite. And, um, and then me personally. And so after the sabbatical, about 103 months kind of stepping away, our board of directors decided that it’s probably actually not best if you re-enter, and it’s probably best that you transition out.

So, um, that was really hard, and it was painful. It was right. It made sense that, you know, they’re really thinking for us. Um, this was the ministry, yeah, so I mean, so essentially it’s in a way it’s almost like being fired, right? Um, you know, if we make it in the crudest terms, um, but this is a group of people that cares about our family and is trying to think for, hey, I, I think actually like stepping back into this, it’s probably not going to be a good thing, you know, and they’re right, um, in the end.

So, you know, sometimes, you know, things are things are. Hard to hear like that, especially in the moment, and we felt like that was our, we had all three children while we were out there. We moved out there, we almost thought this is our first child, and then our 3 biological team later, you know, it felt like our baby, we were having to give away to somebody else. And um so yeah, so it was very painful. So I um and feel free to interrupt me at any point, um, to clarify anything, but I, I ended up painting.

So February 2016, we stepped away, and I had two men who said, Hey, you’re over halfway done with this seminary degree, and I was just driving over into St. Louis, 35, 45 minute drive, taking classes. And so, you’re over halfway done, stay and finish that instead of just going on to the next thing. Then you’d be very well. I would have just boom, I’ve been out of there, I found the next mountain to start running up. And it was such a gift and such a grace to, to stay there and to spend a year and a half in full-time school.

Uh, because of the people that I was exposed to at Covenant Seminary in St. Louis, and a couple of men really took me under their wing. And then there was a, a female professor, Tasha Chapman, learned so much from her about leadership and self-care. And I, I felt like, um, well, we’ll get into that whole kind of rebuilding process in a little bit, but, but on the practical level of painting, we had to eat. And so so did two things. I took a line of credit against our house.

I bought another house with that money, flipped it, that gave us a little bit. And then I, my wife started a Facebook page. We just named it, I think Quality renewal painting and remodeling or something, and just, I just started doing anything I could to try to make money, paint by the hour, eventually learned how to quote, you know, so that’s kind of how I got into it was, it was really it was really just a survival mechanism that we thought was going to be very temporary, like very temporary. Yeah.

So it was uh it was kind of like a part-time hustle. Yeah, I mean, it was really just, hey, we just got to do this till we finish school, which would have been May of 2017. So we’re thinking a year and a half, you know, you’re thinking in a year and a half, and then we’re on to the next thing, you know, was that something you had done? Like before or something. I, yeah, I painted my house a couple of times and, and it felt like when we’re doing the rehabs with the, um, you know, the, the students and the, the young men and women in the inner city ministry, um, that that was something that was always really easy to jump in there and do, felt like it came naturally, you know, I love learning a lot of other stuff, but it felt like that was a really natural thing.

And, and let’s be honest, there’s a really low barrier to entry. I mean, I had a Chevy Impala. I could get a little one of those Werner ladders that collapses and put it in the backseat, you know, and, and a roller, a bucket, you know, had all I needed, you know, you like, did you temporarily change your name to Chuck or you did? I was, I was, you know, I didn’t I didn’t had I known I could have, yeah. Hey, what was their quote? I’m Chuck. I’m 20% cheaper.

Yeah, I mean, you know, I might have been that guy because I didn’t know. I was, man, I mean some people at first got some deals because I had no clue how to quote stuff, you know, I was painting for an hourly rate, which is probably a huge deal, um, because I got, I, I got pretty good pretty fast, you know. So eventually I did, it didn’t take long to realize I need to start actually just quoting this out and, um, you know, but I still was probably, I probably left so much room on the table, you know, uh, but anyway.

Yeah, prior to, prior to digital marketing, how I ended up getting into marketing was I had an auto detail business and, and I started like you where I was doing the auto detailing, so I was the, you know, owner operator, and I remember the first sale I made my background was, was not an entrepreneurship, it was in finance. So I did investment banking and private equity and kind of the the the hard charging wolf of Wall Street kind of finance deal. And then the, and then I decided it wasn’t for me, ended up becoming an entrepreneur, and the first sale I made, I think it was, it was for like $85 which for an auto detail is a joke.

And I remember thinking it was, it was like alchemy. Right, like I had created gold, I had created, like I couldn’t, it was just this thing went off in my brain, and I was like, oh my gosh, I made money, but someone didn’t hand it to me in the form of, you know, W2 check. Like I actually went out to the world and I made it. And so I thought, I thought it took a while. I wised up and things got a lot better, but I was out detailing these cars and I looked back at it.

I’m like, holy cow, did they get a deal. I mean, they were paying 3, 803% of what they should have been paying for the amount of work I was putting in the materials, and I think when you’re starting, you don’t value yourself. You don’t value what you’re offering the right way. But I think unfortunately a lot of people continue on that path. It’s important to recognize it and not just continue doing it forever, and that’s where the chuck who’s been at it for years, he’s still there. Yeah, and I think, uh, you know, and this is a little bit of a sidebar, but yeah, I, I think I see that.

With some of the some other companies that have multiple employees too. And if you don’t value yourself in your own time and that mindset doesn’t change, then in turn, you’re not going to value the time of your employees, you know, and um and so that’s also yeah, it has a lot of consequences down the line for sure. Yeah, and not be apparent like you’re saying if if you’re willing to take. Jobs, projects for maybe a lower rate than you should. You’re not respecting yourself or your company.

You’re not gonna respect your team. Now you’ve got cultural issues, now you’ve got turnover. Now you can’t find those companies that can’t find anyone to work for you. Right, and on and on it goes. Yeah, yeah, that’s right. But then you’re but you oftentimes end up blaming the external factors, not that there aren’t external factors there are, but say, hey, well, the, the labor market is terrible, you know, that nobody wants to work, or maybe you’re not able to pay them enough because you don’t charge enough because you don’t respect yourself and your company enough to have refined the marketing and sales process and actually be able to run this thing the right way.

Yeah, there’s a lot of there’s always a lot of layers, you know. So we, we can control, but there’s a lot of Yeah, yeah. I liked what you said about the, it was like your first kid, the ministry, studies, you know, they, they do these, these uh neural scans, right? Like where they see the different uh parts of your brain that are activated when you think about or or envision different things and The part of your brain that’s activated for business owner when they talk about their business is the same part that’s activated when they talk about their kids.

So it’s actually like biologically we are we view our businesses, especially if we bootstrap them starting from the ground up. We very much view it in the same way that we actually view our literal children. Yeah, that’s crazy. Yeah, if you think about, yeah, yeah, I mean it makes a lot of sense, you know, and that’s part of I know we’ll get into, but that’s, that’s, yeah, that, that knowledge kind of backs up, you know, what. I, you know, I experienced in terms of struggling to really care for the family, to engage in the right way with my kids and not, not make that, that, that ministry first, the first kid to party, you know.

Yeah, that’s it’s challenging. So kind of backing up a little bit, so you, you started the ministry, I think you said in 2009. Right, right, and then you, you basically ran it for 6 years. And then you had to step away during that time you had 3. Actual children, so that’s a lot, 3 kids in 6 years. Uh, and you felt that you were making a difference in the community with the, the young kids you were working with, inner city youth, but you felt that it was coming at the expense potentially of your family and yourself. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, the short answer is, yes. Um, more full answers, you know, I, I mean, I remember when our second kid, Owen was Kristen was in labor with him. And I had 3. Uh, high school teenagers from St. Louis in my house, doing tutoring to try to make sure they’re eligible to play football that fall. And, you know, she starts, I think they’re already there, and then she starts, figures out that she’s in labor. They spent the night. I mean, so looking back, this is crazy. They they literally still spent the night.

I didn’t take them home. They just spent the night. And then I took them home the next day and then came back and got her went to the hospital. It wasn’t like a crisis, like, you know, but I mean, sometimes that labor, but it’s It’s like, what? You know, when I thought, when I remember that story the other day, that’s insanity, you know. Um, but that’s a, that’s a good microcosm of, you know, kind of how it was. I mean, you know, and then we have the kids and um, you know, she’s in the hospital, C-sections, and I’m trying to figure out how do I, I still got to do this part or I gotta do this part, you know, And some of that was, you know, we, we, we were in those first, our first two kids, we were only 1 year into it and 1.5, you know, or 2.5 into it.

So we didn’t have a lot of systems and people, um, you had to fundraise for everything, you know, so it was, um, you know, it took a while to grow some of those things. But still, you know, there’s a way to to do that to where you can really focus on your family. And I just didn’t do it, and I didn’t take care of myself either, um. I, I didn’t know how to cope with hard things that happened, um, whether it was the extreme of, you know, one of those kids that spent the night in those three, Alonzo was shot and killed, um, not too long after that, you know, I mean, so if it’s that dramatic a thing or if it’s just little challenges along the way, um, I didn’t have a self-care, coping, you know, strategy, um.

And so, yeah, just gradually, just, I wore down, um, the lack of attention and focus on the family became really important and they’re really, uh, obvious apparent, became really apparent in 203, we had our third child and, and my wife had a lot of postpartum anxiety. And it was all of a sudden like I tried to be present and I tried to be at home, so step away more and be present, but I felt like I wasn’t help. I didn’t know. I remember telling a counselors like, I’m trying to be here, but I don’t really know what to do.

And this is my own house, you know, and this is my wife, and it just, it felt so. And, and, you know, I just, I felt exposed, you know, like, man, I could, I, I got a lot of work to do. This is not right, you know. Yeah, man, thanks for sharing all that. The, I think that is, is really wild to look back. I mean, there’s not much more. It could be a medical emergency in a negative sense, I guess, but I would say a birth is kind of an emergency, you know, that’s a pretty, pretty big deal.

There’s not a lot I can think of like what, what could happen today that I would drop absolutely everything for regardless of what it was, and focus on a birth is definitely one of those things. So for you to kind of look back. And be like, wow, still kind of still kind of kept on my day in some ways. Yeah, it’s so easy to lose perspective when you’re in it, and then you look back and, and it can be like, man, that was crazy. Right. Yeah, I mean, it’s, I mean, Yeah, it’s, you know, you say out loud and you, you know, beyond having like work through a lot of stuff and everything, there’s, it’s almost like you don’t have an element of shame.

I just tell people that, you know, you should because I mean all of us are, you know, some way or another we’re making mistakes, right? So it’s people hear about that. And the reason I keep drilling into this, people might be listening and think, well, you know, why are we talking about running a ministry or or building a ministry, but what we’re talking about here is the exact same thing. As starting a business, you started this thing, you got imbalanced, you lost perspective, you felt like you were doing something probably for the greater good, especially because it was a religious thing.

You’re helping youth. I mean, in your mind, you’re probably justifying it, you know, it might be your family a little bit, but it’s OK. It’s for a higher cause. But then things are falling apart, you’re falling apart, and I think a lot of entrepreneurs, I know I have, uh, suffer from that very thing. Yeah, yeah, and that, I mean, it’s, it’s so easy, you know, because we do care. And, uh, you know, I think that especially if as entrepreneurs, we’re building something, you know, if our, if our goal is just to make money, I, I don’t, I don’t, I mean, I think we’re probably invested up if we’re as invested, but I think most of the people that are pretty successful, their end goal is not just to make money, you know, and, and they’re wanting to impact people.

And, and, and you’re, that’s a, that’s, there’s a, there’s a connection there, you know, there’s a connection there from your heart to your, your work because you’re, you’re leveraging it for something greater than yourself, right? And it’s, it’s very easy to get lost in that, uh, without a doubt. So. Have you heard of somebody named Myron Golden? I have heard of that. I don’t think why. Yeah, he, so he, I think he came on the scene relatively recently. I’ve started listening to him. He’s pretty active Christian, uh, teaches a lot of biblical principles, but he’s also a highly successful entrepreneur, like ultra successful.

And so his whole, he’s got a really in this innovative approach where he kind of ties a lot of his success to biblical prin because a lot of people think piety, you know, poverty is piety. Um, things like that, right, kind of like you, you have to choose worldly success or, or kind of spiritual success, but you can’t have them both. But one of the things he says, I think is pretty applicable here. Uh, he doesn’t watch the news and he said, Well, how can I? How can I fix the world if I can’t fix my world?

And I think it’s as entrepreneurs we go out and we kind of try to fix the world, but sometimes things are on fire behind us. Um, our most important thing, and, and yeah, like you said, it’s so easy to lose perspective and then you kind of step back and you look back, you’re like, what was I thinking? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s, it happens fast, really fast. Yeah, yeah. Got to take this one extra meeting. Well, it’s just this one phone call. We got to head to the office real fast.

Well, there’s this one project. Well, this guy needs help with this thing. You have to set these boundaries that are just really, really challenging to set. And one of the things you mentioned that I’d really like to dive into is self-care. You know, I almost feel like it’s people either don’t know what that is, or some people they kind of think it’s like a buzzword. Um, what, what did you learn about self-care and how did that impact you? Man, I had so much. Um, you know, so for me, Uh, during the ministry years, it felt like Self-care, well, honestly, all I knew how to do was to state.

I just, I just tried to escape, you know, and, and, and this is gonna sound just literally crazy, um, but I would just watch, when I say I watch, you know, I didn’t watch TV for years and then all of a sudden. I’m doing the ministry and, and looking back through counseling and stuff, I began to understand different things and trauma and neuroscience and things like that. So it kind of makes sense, um, but apart from that knowledge, it’s totally logical and all of a sudden I started watching not just like shows but series, you know, before, before that, my wife and I watched The Office together at Parks.

That was it, you know Thursday night was the best night. That’s right. That’s right, you know, and you have to catch it live because, you know. There was one other, there was one other show. It was, it was Parks and there was, I think it was like an hour-long show. It was like 6 to 8 p.m. or something. There’s Parks and Rec. There was the Office, I think there was one, there’s one other one, but I don’t remember what it was. I got to this or something. I never watched it, but anyway, they, um, so yeah, but I mean I would watch, um, you know, whether it was like a Criminal Minds or Lost or whatever, you know, whatever it might be, um.

I, you know, just the whole, I would just get into the series and I remember just like making a sandwich, sitting out for lunch and it’s all of a sudden I’ve gone through two episodes, and these are what, 40 minute episodes, right? So, you know, it’s like, I don’t have the time, but, but something in myself is looking for like this, this, this care. Where this nurturing that we’re all created to the need, right? And I didn’t know how to do it, you know. And so I had kind of years of this like pattern of like, you know, whether it was like working out or that.

I mean, there’s some goodness in the self-care I did, but, you know, essentially, it took, um, It really, it’s really taken until the last couple of years that I finally understood in a more robust way what that is, and especially in the last year, I’ve just really You know, headlong into it and committed myself to just spending time with a group of men around here to really learn it from, from a, you know, a kind of a mentor in that area. And, um, yeah, so I think You know, there’s a lot of stuff.

We, we have one of the biggest things that I’ve started to do is just try to have this kind of mindfulness, um, just, which is a funny turn to me because it’s almost. I never really, I don’t ever really understand exactly how to define that term, because really what the practice I like to spend a little bit of time doing every day in an ideal world, like 215 to 21 minutes spread across the day. Um, but it’s just sitting and just having kind of an anchor words and my words. Hope.

And if I find my thoughts drifting, I say the word and come back to it, you know, my thoughts are going to drift and so almost like you’re just trying to let things go by and declutter your brain to just be present in the moment. Love to do it outside, bring your birds or nature and things. And again, this is gonna sound totally crazy from if I told the team that I worked with and you say, Louis this, they was like, Who is this guy? Oh, because it was like I was just charging up the mountain and hoping you were catching up to me, you know, and Eventually realizing not only how much that broke me, but broke other people and affected other people, um, it’s, it’s what’s driven me to, to dive into this self-care and, and realize that as a leader, if I’m not healthy, and I’m going to lead in a very unhealthy way.

Um, and so, you know, that, that practice, if I find myself during the day, like really stressed and really hurried, I might just put everything down and just stop and just do some deep breathing for a few minutes, you know, I’ve literally told, um, our office operations manager, Hannah, um, we’ve been about to start to get big project or something, figure something out, and I say, hey, I just need a couple of minutes to kind of center. And it’s hilarious. I must do it enough, Brandon, that she’s like, Well, am I supposed to be doing it with you?

Because I’ve tried to teach some of that stuff. Yeah, I’ve tried to teach them this stuff. Oh, yeah, I took a, um, so drumming actually. I’m not, I’m terrible at music, period, right? But I bought a gymba, um, bought a couple of Facebook marketplace and taking the office because, because when you do drumming, your mind focuses on that, that beat, and it actually is a form of meditation in a way. And um, so it’s hilarious. I, I didn’t get the uh enthusiastic response. I was hoping in the office about it.

Hannah still, she still laughs. I mean, she wasn’t anti, you wasn’t against it, but it was her take on it’s funny, uh, to say the least, um, so. You know, I mean, but beyond that, There’s little decisions that we made as a family to make sure we take vacations and actually take time away, try to disconnect as much as possible. It’s hard as a small business owner. The only, the only trip I’ve found to fully do that was we did a cruise and I realize I didn’t have cell signal.

Um, so that was awesome. And, um, but, but I also have, since I, I say that we just took a spring break trip and I think I maybe spent an hour and a half doing work the whole week. So our team here did a phenomenal job. I mean, they just knew, hey, if it’s not a crisis, if it’s not burning down, then we’re not going to bother them, you know. And, um, and that was awesome, you know. Um, so I think we, so we’ve chosen to take like all the credit card rewards points we get from business and personal and travel with, you know.

And, um, and so that just gives me, that kind of takes away some of the financial excuse. Because I think there’s just something about our 22 kids are 210, and 210 at this point. So, you know, we don’t, we want to have adventures with them while we can, you know, I mean, by God’s grace, we hope to when they’re, they’re out of the house and everything, but their schedules are going to change, their lives are going to change. And, you know, it’s easy to see how that doesn’t happen as much.

This is our prime time, you know. So I won’t miss. Uh, this morning, we found out late yesterday, my 280-year old had an awards day at 203 and I’m thinking I got to start this job day. I got this thing with Brandon. I don’t know if I can, and I thought I, I don’t know if I can’t. I’ve just got to figure it out. So yeah, I just told the sub. I was like, hey, I’m gonna start you really fast. You can call me after 220 if you have any questions, you know, but let’s just get you off to run start.

I’m getting my kids award program, you know. Um, well, the sporting events for work. I just, I mean, I will quickly let a quote lapse or anything lapse with work to go be a part of something my kids are doing, you know, or if my wife says, hey, I have a doctor’s appointment, I need to pick up so and so from school, or if I, she needed to go, she bust her ankle and needed to get to the doctor. So. You know, that shot my whole Monday morning, um, a month ago.

Now, and you and I both know what Monday mornings are like, you know, so essentially set it off, hey, I’m pretty much out. It’s, it’s kind of wild. I the, the old Shane would have never done that, you know. So, um, there’s a lot more I could probably get into with self-care, but I think. I think a huge part of it is realizing that you’re not indispensable, um, or is that the right way to say it? Like irreplaceable maybe. Yeah, that’s a better word. Yeah, you’re not irreplaceable.

I mean, there’s You know, the world can go on without you. You know, it’s, it’s like if you need to stop and care for yourself, your family, whatever that is, um, those things are significant, you know, going to the gym at 280 o’clock in the middle of the day, I don’t do that a lot, but I don’t feel guilty when I do, you know, I’m sure, I’d rather get up at 23:30, be there at 6, work out, and go on my day doesn’t always happen, you know. But I also know that I need sometimes to just get on a rowing machine or just get a workout in to declutter, des.

and, and, and reduce anxiety or whatever it is, you know. And, and so I’m not going to feel guilty about doing that. Um, I think that’s a mindset shift too is it’s not, I’m not going to feel guilty about caring for myself, you know, if, if I want to tell my wife, hey, let’s go to the mountains and take a two-hour lunch. I’m not going to feel guilty about that, especially if it’s something that is going to revitalize me, you know, because my team’s going to ultimately benefit from that when I do.

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I’ve noticed that I, I, uh, make a very concerted effort on my end to go to all the kids’ things and, and everything. It can be, it can be challenging, right? Because you, you think like I, I don’t want to do this thing today or, you know, have something more important, but at the end of the day, when you look back, there was nothing more important. So even if you, it’s kind of doing the right steps, even if you don’t, I mean, it’s like fitness, right?

Fitness or nutrition or kind of anything. Uh, sleep, it’s doing the right steps, even when you don’t wanna take those right steps, being, uh, kind of being present with your kids and other things can, it can honestly be that way sometimes too. Yeah. So you have, you have, Shane, I just want to make sure we get this into, I always like to take what we talk about kind of drill down, make it as practical as we can. So if anyone’s listening, they say, hey, I wanna do, you know, I wanna kind of try out some of the stuff that Shane’s talking about self-care.

I think I could use some of this. So we’re talking about vacations, so making a, making a habit of regularly taking vacations and unplugging during those vacations. We’re talking about doing some, sounds like meditation. Yeah, that’s meditation, yeah, meditation or almost trying to focus on like just totally, you know, clearing whatever out of your head. Yeah. And there’s a lot of neuroscience about disconnect and disconnected from technology we do that, you know, so and I don’t always do great jobs, but take the watch off, right? It’s going to buzz you don’t, you know, it’s like literally disconnecting. Yeah.

I love it. And then, you know, making time for important family events. You know, whether, whether that’s kids or or spouse or, you know, parents or whatever it might be in your life. I, is there anything that I maybe missed in terms of the self-care? And then also not feeling bad when you when you’re gonna work out, when you want to take a longer lunch, when you wanna, you know, making sure if you feel need to do something, you do it and you don’t guilt trip yourself because you did it. Right.

Yeah, I think it’s because for me the example working out, I, I know the benefits that gives me, not just, oh, I can read the science and it talks about whatever. It’s, I mean, I, I just know. That It’s always been in my life something that that I can thinker into. And so for other people that could be playing a guitar, I have no idea, you know, everybody’s different, right? So that’s, that’s the, that’s why I use that as an example because for me, that’s, that’s a huge thing, you know, um.

But yeah, um, I think those, those are good summaries, yes. OK, so let’s, um, let’s kind of fast forward a little bit here. So you did the ministry, uh, things were not how you wanted them to be at home, to kind of reached a breaking point, took a sabbatical, the board of directors tried to look out for your best interest, although it hurt at the time, kind of said, hey, we don’t think you should come back. Uh, and then now you are starting to paint. You’re you’re flipping houses, you’re starting to paint on the side to try to feed your family.

And you’ve recognized that you were imbalanced before and that it costs you something you’re not willing to pay anymore. How do you now in this, in this situation where you have to put food on the table, how do you now balance the stress of having to deal with that while also not falling back into that same trap of imbalance, not taking care of yourself or your family? Yeah, yeah, that’s a great question. Um, I, I don’t know that I did the best job of that, um. I think that God was really gracious and that we only had to flip the one house, and I think we made, I don’t know if it was like $20,000.

It was, it was, it was a significant amount for us. And that really kind of gave me a little bit of a, uh, a lot of, I guess a lot of leeway financially. Um, you know, I mean, the time we’re used to making $50,803 a year, roughly maybe $600 I think. So, you know, that’s, that’s a, that’s a chunk of what we would need to live on. And And so that gave me some space to not have to just go crazy painting, you know, I think that first fall of 2016, I maybe painted the.

A day and a half to 2 a week, you know, because I was taking 15 hours of graduate level class, right? And so, um, so I think, you know, I, I learned more and more what it meant to be present at home during the time to find joy in that, you know, um, I would find pockets of, hey, I’ve got a Thursday night class, Thursday morning, and a Thursday night class. So I’m gonna say. On the campus all day and just get a ton of my work done then, you know, so there was, we kind of, kind of like pick and choose that, hey, I’m supposed to be out all Thursdays, but that’s going to allow me to be present other days, you know, and the little kind of strategies I try to incorporate.

So a lot of what I was learning at the time, um, or what I knew was, OK, I can be present at home and be engaged when I’m here, not on the phone, not whatever, but actually be engaged. So I was very cognizant of, you know, the, the, the, the damage that I had done before, you know, um, you know, in our marriage, I could see it with, it was like I had a bad relationship with my oldest two kids, but I could see a difference with my youngest.

I was just there more when he was in that 1 to 2 year old stage. And, and so that made me passionate about connecting with my older ones and being really intentional there and not missing those moments, right? Um, but really, it was a, a couple. Um, professors at the seminary that really became friends and really invested in me, and much older men been through a lot of life experience, especially a much older men they’ve been through many more experiences, is a better way to say it. They weren’t that, that, that much older than me.

Um, but they were so wise and so, um, thoughtful and just the way that they, they even kind of put me in. In situations where they said, hey, we want you to kind of mentor these younger students and at the time, I’m thinking like, I can’t do that. I’m, I’m just a, I’m just a mess, right? Like, I’m not, how am I going to be good to anybody because I still, you know, you, you start to question a lot about yourself when even though obviously like, It was a good decision by the board.

You start to feel like, well, my failure? Can I do anything, you know, you kind of, you start to question all those things, right? And so there was just this gradual rebuilding process, um, learned a lot about leadership. There’s a lady there named Tasha Chapman, who’s brilliant, just with leadership and, and, and here and those kind of things and just really started to look back and realize how poorly I had led in the ministry. And, um, and where I needed to change and didn’t fully, you know, I mean, that’s a process, right?

That’s been a 10-year process. Um, but it’s been something I’ve been committed to over those 10 years to really grow and I still have little notes for my wife where she said, hey, I really appreciate how you’ve grown in empathy. I like that, that, that was, that was a big, it sounds like a simple statement, and it’s a normal human. Uh, thing to do, but I was just a driver. I didn’t have that. I just was go, go, go, go, fix, fix, fix, let’s move on, you know, and, and not knowing how to really engage with her when she had health issues or with the kids or whatever it might be.

Um, so it was not, it was definitely something that took a lot of work to say, OK, how do we How do I, as I’m trying to learn, as I’m trying to course correct, as I’m trying to figure out things, I didn’t know that I didn’t even know I was doing wrong, you know, not really like you said, mess it up again. Um, and so a lot of us just being aware of like, You know, I got a lot to learn, and I got a lot to grow, and I’m just going to keep taking the next step forward, you know.

Yeah, I think your your focus on mentorship too is huge. I think it’s very undervalued finding people who have come before you, who know more than you do due to their, you know, having more life experiences and seeking that guidance. I think so often, especially as entrepreneurs, we, we wanna kind of chart our own course why we’re entrepreneurs, but. It you don’t want to try to do it fully alone, especially when you’re trying to balance life responsibilities with the business. You really want to, if you can find successful business owners who also uh have successful families, you know, that they’re close with those, those two things are not, not, not always easy to find.

Usually, you know, you find the family man who maybe has a more modest. Income or professional ambition, and then you find kind of the rock star professionally, but his personal life is in shambles. If you can actually find some people who have them both, that’s huge. Yeah, it, it, it really is. And, um, and I would say another thing I learned from one of the men I’m talking about was um saying no, you know, I think he would, he would admit where he overcommitted, because he was, he was one of the most brilliant people I’ve ever known.

And so they would ask him to teach all these things. He’d be asked to speak in these different places and He kind of realized like, ah, I did too much here, but they, they would as a family, he would talk about also they always protected, I think it was Sundays for them, but that was their family day, you know, and they, they made some decisions not to get into like travel, soccer, and other things because they did still want to lose this, you know, this family connection kind of thing.

And um And so, you know, I think that was another big piece, and maybe that’s a big piece of the self-care too, say no. Um, you can say no to the good opportunity, if it’s not the best, you know. And I think that’s, I think that’s one thing that I did not do in ministry is like, yeah, we’ll take care of this, we’ll do this, we’ll go to, you know, every time there was a need, we try to meet it, you know, and, and it came, it came at a personal cost.

And And it can be that way now with, with customers and with, with our team, you know, um, how do we balance that? Yeah, we really just can’t do this, you know, um, sorry, like being able to disappoint somebody for the good of yourself, you know. Yeah, and I think the, I mean, saying no is such a valuable life skill and, and entrepreneurial skill, because there’s a shiny object, there’s a, hey, we’re already in the home, you know, homeowner wants to see if we can do flooring, maybe we should open a flooring division.

There’s a You know, hey, this, this project doesn’t seem like a good homeowners seems like they might be problematic, but they’re, you know, we’ll make a little bit of money off of it when you kind of know in your gut, hey, this isn’t worth the risk because homeowner’s going to be problematic, just say no. Um, so we bring on so much unnecessary hardship to ourselves because we overextend. And I think it’s, and I think we don’t even realize we’re doing it, right? And we just have so much on our plate, it’s kind of that 80/20 Pareto principle.

OK, what, what are the 20% of things that I’m doing in my personal life that I’m doing in my business that are generating 80% of the results that I want and let me lean into those versus chase every single avenue, every single opportunity, and then end up being overwhelmed and burnt out. Right, yeah, it’s Easy to say that. It’s because we know it’s dangling there, man. That’s it, man. That’s it. And I, yeah, and to your point, I mean, I just, we had the renovation business here as well and I just, I just got rid of my portion of that.

I just said, you know, like this is, I talked to my partner and I said, hey, do you want to buy, you want to buy me out of this? Because I just realized like, I don’t. This is, yeah, I’d rather just focus on one thing. Let’s focus on one thing for painting and one thing only, you know, and I think it’s great if people have multiple things and they want to do that. That’s awesome, you know, I I just, you know, as a way to protect myself and everything, yeah, I’ve had to make hard decisions like that to say, no, that’s a good, that’s a good opportunity, but it’s not the best, you know.

Yeah, yeah, one of the things I’m most proud of and it’s not that it will never evolve, it might in the future, but one of the things I’m most proud of is we’ve stuck with painters because we’ve had so many. So many successful partnerships with painting companies and then they have a a flooring division, right, or they have some other thing or their their friend runs a roofing company and can we, can we market for the roofing company? So there’s been all these opportunities, but I know that if we focus on the one thing, continue to refine it, we’ll be the best at it, and then we actually have systems that scale, you know, people that, that scale, um, but it has, there’s been a lot of nos along the way and it’s hard.

Yeah, it really is, especially when it comes to, like you said, it feels like, oh we could grow this, we could do this, we can make money here, and it’s just usually. Yeah, I’m like you, it’s usually not worth it, you know, and I had people that thought I was crazy when they say, you’re, how would you sell your majority share in this other business? And I was like, I, if I could, if we just one quality of life, to peace of mind, 3, if I actually take that energy and put it into the painting business and do the one thing that we know how to do really well and do it over and over again, we’re going to grow enough that that income is going to be replaced anyway, you know, so, yeah. Yeah.

The one thing. Uh, Shane, man, this has been a, a deep episode, deeper than, than I actually realized we were gonna go. So I’ve appreciated that. Is there anything you want to discuss that you wanna add before we wrap up this first episode kind of covering the backstory leading into the painting company? No, I think, I mean, like you said, we went, uh, you know, we went a lot of places. I would say that the last thing that, you know, would be interesting, we’ll get into, well, yeah, I think we’ll get into it, yeah, soon here, but it’s just that I still had a resistance.

To to do in the paint, even when we moved here, it’s like, I, I don’t want to do this, you know, I didn’t want to, I didn’t want to do this. I just want to go find a job. And so that’s been an interesting evolution too from that reluctance to where we have a lot of joy in it now, you know. So, um, So I’m excited to share more about that. Yeah. Nice little teaser tune in for next week’s episode. Awesome. Thanks, man. All right, thank you, Shane.

Appreciate you man. All right, see you soon.

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