Welcome to the Painter Marketing Mastermind Podcast, the show created to help painting company owners build a thriving painting business that does well over 103 million in annual revenue. I’m your host, Brandon Pierpont, founder of Painter Marketing Pros and creator of the popular PCA Educational Series to grow marketing for painters. In each episode, I’ll be sharing proven tips, strategies and processes from leading experts in the industry on how they found success in their painting business. We will be interviewing owners of the most successful painting companies in North America and learning from their experiences.
In this series titled “Success Frameworks”, Mark DeFrancesco of MDF Painting will be discussing his journey from young painter to veteran business guru. It is a 5-part series.
In episode 3, Mark will dive into his sales and marketing mindset and the mental frame he has used to achieve massive success.
If you want to ask him questions related to anything in this podcast series, you can do so in our exclusive Painter Marketing Mastermind Podcast Forum on Facebook. Just search for “Painter Marketing Mastermind Podcast Forum” on Facebook and request to join the group, or type in the URL Facebook.com/groups/PainterMarketingMastermind. There you can ask them questions directly by tagging him with your question, so you can see how anything discussed here applies to your particular painting company.
How are you I’m doing well I’m doing well. The last episode was extremely truck-full of information feel like I learned a ton appreciate you doing the series Appreciate you having here. Yeah man. So we are sales and marketing mindset mental frame used to achieve massive success You probably be uncomfortable with this topic sales and marketing appreciate you outside your comfort zone. Sounds good so I thought about this and I said if I break it down to one word I think I come from an abundance mindset. And I don’t know that that’s on purpose it just kind of happened that way, um.
And what do I mean by that So when it comes to marketing I’ve always just felt like the marketplace was unlimited for me I mean I was so darn small it was me running around putting flyers in mailboxes and putting signs up. it was just unlimited you know like one of a thousand customers who wanted painting done to call me it would my business right and even with a much larger business today I still feel like it’s unlimited. a lot of people around the country. You you what percentage of the gallons of paint are you actually spreading. a.
Connecticut Home Depot de small a And that’s always been my mindset I don’t know where it came from. But at my highest times and even at my lowest times I’ve always known it to be true. that there was just way more work that I can ever done that’s out there in marketing way more leads than I can ever service so how do I go about getting what’s and increment incrementally getting more and more. and I think the second of mindset I had this is maybe more so in sales is how can I help you now this this question of how can I help you now has kind of operating system that runs subconsciously through my mind I think for a long time every time I was with a customer fifteen sixteen thousand times I was thinking how can I help you now and trying to help you solve problems that authenticity people I think you’re tough to be.
you know a lot of people from a place of wanting to make a commission or wanting to so much in revenue but if you just approach a project what needs to be done here for the benefit of the project of the property and then also for the benefit of the person that owns that property. was always just how can I help last one can I help you I think there is this misconception and unfortunately it has been true sometimes but there is this misconception that the sales against the homeowner.
for for one that kind of ties into your number one scarcity mindset for one person to win the other person has to lose versus consultative relational selling Hey you actually have a need that’s why I’m here. How can I serve you. and part of how I am going to serve you is I’m going to make a good profit margin on this because that allows me to serve my team which allows me to do marketing allow me to do these other things so I can serve more people like you and I think this idea that that you’re going to sell them or en on them versus help them a buying decision.
people in the field painting how can I help you that’s why it’s so important. process that allows you to the customer and the project in deep ways to serve you haven’t ask you listen to you ask you listen and listen to you. All the sales processes is holding your hand holding the hand of the prospect and walking them through an orchestrated process. so that they get more clarity about what they want to buy and why they want to buy it and you help show them that you’re a great option for them essentially you’re helping them.
buy something. in a way that’s that’s it is you never ever selling them. Yeah I think the if we go back to the last episode we talked about production systematizing production. and how important that is for a business, but it’s also important for the the experience for the quality control and I think what is often times miss there are a lot of contractors out there that do not do a good job that don’t follow through on their word that you know who knows maybe some someone’s gonna steal something from the house or whatever and it is a duty of yours.
to protect the homeowner who is now trusted you to come meet with them go into their home you have a duty to try to protect the homeowner from scrupulous contractors. That’s so critical I have one person on my team sales team who is a high dve so from a personality standpoint caring very much doesn’t everyone upset anyone wants everyone to like them and relate to them they’re relator dove there’s a book called I believe it’s called major personality and that’s the books people with this is a very very much a relator.
everyone’s actual. customer because you’ve heard this before you’ve done. If you just say okay pack up your stuff and leave you have absolutely one hundred percent left them at the mercy of a contractor who is not as good as you and doesn’t care as much as you about the customer. And as a relator if you really think about that logically and you take that it and you believe that. sog. insisten. sure what you’re building right and so now you go in there and you’re just don’t push it and don’t go through the whole sales process and you pack up like everyone packs up and you leave. a.
SÃ. af. because I think a lot of painting contractors operate under the assumption that you know hey, it’s pretty white and black they want this work done and they want it done for the cheapest price and it’s I have to put some kind of voodoo magic on them or I have to. I have to do some sort of unethical selling pushy sales tactics if I want to actually make more money on the project because what they want want this for the cheapest possible that’s not true of the people that you are not the possible.
may think that that’s the narrative and if you think that’s the narrative that maybe it becomes true but I will challenge you to do one thing I will challenge you in the course of your sales to say What is the most important factor in you decide to hire as your painter. Close your mouth. And if they say price because many of them will I want you to say this next and you can write this down. price is the most important factor for you does this mean that unless I’m absolutely a dollar cheaper than everybody else, there’s zero percent chance that you’ll ever hire me is that what you’re saying.
So follow up that with that little word tracks. And I will guarantee ninety five percent of your clients no I mean I’m not saying that it’s just price I mean I want to get a fair price but you have to give good quality and I’ve got to get this warranty and I need this and I want to make sure Benjamin Sherwin Williams and they’ll start to all these other things. people. see a lot of my own sales team and it’s like they had a Mercedes in the garage you because you two thousand dollars a truck two thousand it because they didn’t trust enough or didn’t feel that the price that you gave them.
the value exceeded the price so you didn’t build the value that exceeded the price that you gave them on whatever le cause that’s what has happen for someone to buy. So it’s never about Price. And when they say it’s about price it’s still not about price but what you need to do is ask the question a slightly different way. so if you ask someone that question what’s the most important factores follow up question dollar dollars correct. high definitely because the business you know we have to provide employees en XYZ painting and you both good Google reviews or you both been in business for a while or something to that effect.
price product is painting using the brand but what’s the actual grade of that product contractor grade premium ultra premium You know what’s the many hours standing doing let’s go deep into what you actually need. sometimes people they they’re notre expert contractors. Yeah like that and I think that’s a big issue is a lot of times you know because they’re coming toes and they think it’s you’re running a company that has a warranty has a real team has this stuff and then comes in gives another quote he he do it for less he is the project for less. he. certo.
Why do you think he’s so cheap. What do you think he left out. What do you think will happen when he rees that it’s not enough labor material that number. question. And I wouldn’t say that allowed to customer but I would say for whatever reason they really don’t want the job Maybe they’re one of those contractors that is weeks booked out or thirty weeks booked out or something ridiculous. only the jobs double the price I don’t know I know what I doing something wrong or they don’t know any better and then they don’t want the business let’s talk you know you have to be willing to deep. a.
a in almost a probar. is that helpful to great cost this much if we sign here and here we go ahead and in schedule and that the closing dance and so Why don’t we do it that way fear. Ah not being comfortable with discomfort. You have to be comfortable with discomfort. People are gonna say I’m getting more bids people are gonna say to you early on. I’m not gonna buy this today People are gonna say to you have to sit with my significant other and discuss it people are gonna say to you I don’t know what my prices and they’re prospects.
de yo. you have to realize that you have to play with the prospect. He says I understand. Then he asked another new great question. En Anwesens. and he does it again and again and again in different ways and eventually a star salesman make someone feel a prospect feel comfortable. t. problem. I really hope the lowest price Why you’re more likely to go out of business you have no profit. en wedding before you know it’s experience and you know if you every because it’s how we do business it’s smart business simple exclusions.
you know we have great relationships, they’re gonna be part of the process of giving us free material and helping out especially for buying ultra premium let’s do this thing right and so that’s what it feels like they feel supported. It’s about high value low risk. I think the one of the things you said in Mark as well was essentially selling against a higher price, which is really interesting because we always think the the lower price and why they lower price and then. um sell against them what happens if someone is higher price and approaching you are so much higher what’s wrong with your company.
a physical quote I need to have written down in front of me and I love picking that stuff apart I mean I really really deep I’ve actually created a few videos on this where we talk about all the things you would look for and if you’re doing it right and you’re confident in your production rate. everything that you’ve done it’s possible. New England. every single homeown prices and clear the windows themselves that’s because that’s excluded. So I’m never afraid of it’s higher than me but I do plant the seed of you have to become very good at planting the seed of what I mean by that is saying.
I don’t see why it’s that. You know I think that maybe it’s a project that they don’t want to take on at this time I I don’t I can’t explain why and it’s okay for you to be authentic and honest and I can’t explain why but it’s really powerful with the lower bid. When you can say things like I don’t know how they’re so cheap or why but just my experience shows me I’ve got to buy you premium product I’ve got to do a premium process I’ve got to do my prep right I’ve got to pay people well.
at the end of the day that cost to do that’s got to give and what happens when a contractor not just the painter but any contractors a project and they realize there’s not enough money for the amount of scope. different things that happen. it’s nothing comes from the customs and No that makes sense I get that I trust this guy right they like you and trust you and perceive value higher to the point of sale price. success talked about how can I help you. If I have this that’s like having a great restaurant and bring that no one goes to it.
premium customer I just never understood that I felt like you marketing extension of your company company. trying to do the right thing was constantly improving and excellent in the marketplace stand on a Bye. And I think it’s tied up in this this idea that to be a craftsman you have to be small. to provide high quality service you have to be small. And I just never believe that now that’s a mindset thing so I think that to be a craftsman you have to care about doing the job right.
people have to give systems It’s not that complicated and you got to keep score. and that’s hard to do and you gotta constantly recruit and hire and train and continue and repeat and repeat repeat until what happens one day you wake up and you guys with you for twenty years ten years and a really really really good painters. And then whatever job they go on that customer gets a really really good job. But it’s hard to do that it takes effort and time and energy and process.
And I think I always felt when you viewed marketing as something that only the inferior painters do a cop out it was a way of saying I don’t want to grow an excellent team because it’s hard to do. So I’ll just be really really small and I’ll just pretend that not doing marketing somehow. makes me better or makes it a better service. And from day one I just thought that that wash and I just felt like if you did it well it. Now I will say if you’re an owner and you and you’re content with everything.
profit employees you have the customers ser everyone in the market love to dollarin dollars. right size it to the owner. me. they they don’t need to market because they provide quality work and so they get repeat referral business naturally and if you need to market, then it means that you don’t get repeat referral business, which is obviously incorrect. dont dont dont profitable. Ring. And this changes through this you know the growth in the lifetime of your business business is a little bit different than adolescence in terms of a business always and I think the idea.
many leads you can at an average allowable cost that fits with how you sell. because if you always do marketing will never be the reason you’re not profitable. Let me say that again you always look at the relationship between sales and marketing and choose to spend as much as you possibly can the allow average cost. marketing would never be the reason your company is not profitable. Okay. So what is this average dollars per a sales metric ADL. And I want to spend ten percent in marketing. I have to spend three hundred or less as my average reliable cost.
If I wanted to spend five percent for whatever reason I look at my financials which I think is a lower number for growing business if I want to spend five percent then it would be one fifty ADL three thousand What happens if I suck it sales and ADL is fifteen hundred. Then at ten percent I can only spend one fifty. I’m a lot more limited to what I can do. en. And I know in reading a lot of your stuff with painter marketing pros one of the things I love about it, Brandon is you’re describing what to do and and what you’re finding is when you get really built out, you can kind of everything all the time.
Meaning like you don’t throw away those free things or low cost. But you layer basically are constantly evolving you allocate spend that’s what it looks like it’s like a solution and it is you have to do a bunch of things and measure and how you’re doing it in order to get the results that’s the fact. and you should buy as many leads as you possibly can at below that average allow cost So people say to me why don’t track you know my to know what my ide One of the people and I’m not a huge shady like that but I am a supporter of anything that works and I think that a lot of different lead channels you can make some companies are here we used to buy a lot of leads to do and then we got to million dollars to two million dollars and we doing it.
So now we don’t do that anymore and we do this thing now we invest Facebook ads Google or whatever it is. and I asked them it working you know when you got to one million two million dollars making money, but then you know we were able to bring someone in marketing and we could do marketinges Why would you cut off a channel I don’t care what channel it is that’s working you know if you’re making money on just layer something else you graduated out of this profitable channel that doesn’t make sense.
That’s a good way to graduating and I think that’s one of the mindsets that everyone do feel like they’re graduating and sometimes people who are more people that are higher. a. Connecticut. both we talked about the first episode basically diversifying risk element of business that is often times overlooked cash flow of business but there are all kinds of risks a business and marketing if you’re overly dependent on a single lead source massive risk. of a better way to marketing standpoint is every potential channel. And the different tools and the and the tools have different things that they can do just like tools in your toolbox.
And I getting something out of this tool like I may use that hammer all the time and I need the hammer and that’s critical so that’s a fundamental thing that maybe more money is spent there or you you’re a little bit more reliant on that. But there should be twenty or thirty tools. And you can’t just would you take a tool and because you don’t anticipate using it in the next one month two months three months six months would you throw it away. or would you keep it in the toolbox and I think that’s what we do as painters if we find something that works with a higher a better CPE a lower CPE a higher and we may just put it aside.
Because it doesn’t that you don’t think this is us. m. and better it doesn’t have to be better and different. And and I think it’s powerful there like if you don’t have an abundance mentality in marketing. of the business is the funnel it’s like that’s how do you create anything that’s greating down the marketing department and not giving you live in production dont believe in marketing it doesn’t. It’s like you’re cutting off the offense. It doesn’t make a lot of sense I still struggle to understand that mentality many years later.
I just chalk it up to contentment or laziness Contentment’s not bad if you’re happy with how things are but then why are you learning to do things differently if you’re happy with how they are. Ya. so this stuff can be you know people can listen to it and understand the logic of it. But then the actual implementation of it in particulares can be challenging, I do feel that discomfort talk with the homeowner it feel like it’s me against the homeowner and it makes me kind of squ a little bit and when you said that maybe sometimes maybe makes me feel better doesn’t hurt my feelings stings even though the sales you really want to go for the no and we can dive into that probably next episode How do we start for somebody who is uncomfortable sales practice.
practice practice practice practice listening to you know video audio and reading things that are specific sentint jobs. you know that’s why my stuff is so powerful for people because it’s a system where they have a library of videos that they could train the people and they could follow a dedicated system. But the more you watch the videos the better you become sales training obviously we half week onboarding where we train you when you’re hired a weekly sales meeting train every single week that meeting literally in the meeting and watch a big screen kind of weird’s a fatter version of me like that but I notes people like why are you notes This is your stuff and I’m like because every time I hear it again.
It sparks some other thought or idea or or relevance that I didn’t even recognize before and so why is like a star athlete continue to run sprints and dribble basketball and practice left handed lay ups and do their jump shots and why do they go and shoot free throws. incessant why they’re already the best in the world because that’s what you do you want to greatness and if you want to that’s what you have to do. So if you want to become comfortable with the discomfort prepared why every professional athlete.
They all get nervous. This is your body having excitement and energy to go out there and perform, but if you’re prepared or if you’re really prepared. You can lock in with that. a in the same thing there’s not like fifty thousand. after a while you realize that one of these things and you just have to take the conversation that’s my coaching so I don’t want to objection we say this as a prospect of why not buying information a question that we can say a listened to video enough enough and practiced again and again and again and again.
What happens with that discomfort. it’s still there. It’s a guy comes out on the field of thousand people of course he’s got butterflies of course. scripts. listening saying this next. And if you listen to that repeat for six months be a star but nobody does that it’s just practice it is is practice practice I become comfortable with the discomfort. And then it gets fun. people. equipment equips a business it’s not that people don’t become. So this is why I think it’s important to get a good system whether it’s or someone else plug and play it and starting people into the system and let them be a hundred percent laser focused on sales.
owner become great sales It’s almost by accident I became pretty good but just by accident I got lucky most people that I coach the first thing I say why don’t you do this yourself Why don’t you someone let coaches people. Because it’s more likely to five million dollars business you do that. It’s good if you want to know it from a knowledge or from a theoretical standpoint but if you need to be the guy who’s a star salesman. point one point. no it’s really good goes back to the people the process process being the system people being you having a good hiring process and bringing people who can carry that load for you and I think you mentioned in the past episode was.
a conversation with that and he was asking how much are you paid per hour a thousand dollars per hour five hundred dollars How much would you be comfortable paying a sales you realize you probably shouldn’t be doing all the sales I think when some of the stuff all the stuff ties together in the machine and when you’re talking about you know we have to make sure that things get painted we have to make sure the trucks repaired we have to make sure x y z all these things happen.
Yeah it’s not as good and and the thing that they’re that they’re not that they’re missing is that they’re taking themselves away from being the owner. So part of why I made this as a plug and play is for MDF painting that’s a hundred percent why I made it so I didn’t have to be there to have a sales team operate. Just think about this logically you could be the best guy ever at leadership sales painting business. energy to people that for a week. powerful you give more energy to the system you’re given to the system.
It’s just a fact I I mean I hate to believe that that’s true but just think about it logically and they could be a player and you could be an A. bring more energy to focus to meet that owner myself included who is able to say I’ll give it forty five and it might be there is there. player player practice practice practice. Mark I know I know we have the next episode is sales given that we bring you have a programle bit about how it works people can message in the Facebook group talked about that in the opening is another way that they could contact if they want to learn more about your program.
Yeah I mean they could email me my emails Mark at MDF painting dot com MARK they could um they can call me they can reach out anywhere I social media pretty much everywhere. people love them. we talked about how can I help you talked about you know if it’s working you always being as much as you possibly can have a diversification but keep the channel and mix your marketing budget accordingly with anything else you wanna loop episode. is is really hard and I and I think I still struggle with this.
Being doing less. And that sounds like it should be a simple thing but what do I mean by this if if you’re the owner and your interactions direct customer facing employee facing interactions start to become minimal eventually. You feel guilty. a. I don’t know what to do. There’s a lot of kill and withdrawal symptoms that happen like if you’re used to being the star painter. production. massive withdrawal symptoms when you have a strong and this is the real thing because you struggle with the natural tendency to jump in.
And we don’t talk about a lot because not a lot of us have probably got got to the place where we feel that that inner conflict. That’s that I love that I’m glad that brought up we talk about logistically the cost of that particular role we don’t use the words that’s frequently associated with this. but I I felt it myself out of different functions and the team running and actually inition guilt I almost which is weird almost a um. nothing. foto. profit. lo lo. just have to figure out what is bring value and it’s it doesn’t have to be away from your business but it could be a different way of helping business. ya.
Mark This has been awesome as always you wealth of knowledge appreciate you being so open and sharing it is there anything else you want to add as we wrap up this episode of sales and marketing mindset. No I think this has been great there’s a lot of stuff I appreciate you listening to some of it through I hope it’s helpful people out there listening.
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Hey there, painting company owners. If you enjoyed today’s episode, make sure you go ahead and hit that subscribe button. Give us your feedback. Let us know how we did. And also if you’re interested in taking your painting business to the next level, make sure you visit the Painter Marketing Pros website at PainterMarketingPros.com to learn more about our services. You can also reach out to me directly by emailing me at Br*****@******************os.com and I can give you personalized advice on growing your painting business. Until next time, keep growing.
