Welcome to the Painter Marketing Mastermind Podcast, the show created to help painting company owners build a thriving painting business that does well over 103 million in annual revenue. I’m your host, Brandon Pierpont, founder of Painter Marketing Pros and creator of the popular PCA Educational Series to grow marketing for painters. In each episode, I’ll be sharing proven tips, strategies and processes from leading experts in the industry on how they found success in their painting business. We will be interviewing owners of the most successful painting companies in North America and learning from their experiences.

In this episode of the Painter Marketing Mastermind Podcast, Lisa Hudson, President of the Fresh Coat Painters franchise, discusses the growth of Fresh Coat Painters. She will lay out the differentiation of Fresh Coat and what makes the franchise so successful. Listen on for advice that you can action in your own painting company.

If you want to ask Lisa questions related to anything in this podcast series, you can do so in our exclusive Painter Marketing Mastermind Podcast Forum on Facebook. Just search for “Painter Marketing Mastermind Podcast Forum” on Facebook and request to join the group, or type in the URL Facebook.com/groups/PainterMarketingMastermind. There you can ask Lisa questions directly by tagging her with your question, so you can see how anything discussed here applies to your particular painting company.

Thank you for joining us, Lisa. Thank you, Brandon for having me. I am very excited to have you. Yes, you and I have been working closely for the past over the past year. I think I’ve been pushing you to do this podcast for some time to share your wisdom with the world. I’m glad I finally achieved it. Absolutely. It’s been great working with you and your organization. Um It is really meant a great deal to many of our franchise owners um in the work that you’re helping them um every day in driving their business. Uh I appreciate that. I’ll give the listeners a little background. So, painter, marketing uh pros, we are corporate partners um of sorts with fresh coat. So we, we work with a lot of the franchisees uh for discounted programs. So we have an in depth exposure to fresh coat, which is why I wanted to pull Lisa onto this podcast. Uh because the way that they run their business, the support that they offer to their painters and generally how they, how they view the industry as a whole is something that a lot of listeners can benefit from. So Lisa, let’s, let’s kick off. You guys have something with the something called the 3333. What is that we do? Um So it’s really our guarantee and promise to help our owners be able to identify excellent customer service for their clients as well as understanding how their business is working and growing so that they can scale. Um, so we really work on the fact that, um, we want to have the phone answered within three rings and that’s really important because, um, we’ve all done it where you’re on Google and you’re looking for something in the service industry and you make that first phone call and then you don’t get an answer or you just get an answering machine. And so then you go to the second, the second one. And so having um the ability, whether we recommend different answering services so that, that client can immediately know that we’re urgent and there to help them. And then we go into the being able to quote within three days. Um You, people don’t want to wait a long time. We wanna have the, the staff and the ability to get to you pretty quickly to determine um how we can best help you, which leads to the third three, which is that we want to be in your home working on the project or at least having the project scheduled within three weeks. So that we know um that like most Americans, we sometimes put off things, um especially big events. And so we don’t want to wait months, we are kind of calling at the last minute and hoping you can get us in as soon as possible. So that really helps us be able to identify great levels of service. But it also helps the owner really determine when do I need to scale? Right. So if I can’t get to that quote with within three days, that’s an opportunity for me to add staff to my team if I can’t get to the project by three weeks. And that really helps me to understand that I also need to add painters, project managers, those types of folks as I’m building my business. And it’s really important that, you know, sometimes people are very excited that they’re booked out for two or three months. But during that time frame, you’re losing a lot of business and not only you’re losing a lot of business, you’re losing that business to your competitor. And that is, that’s a problem of number one, but it’s also a long term problem because you utilize all of your customers to be able to reactivate and as referrals. So you certainly don’t want to lose that base to a competitor at that point. Yeah, I think that point is so good. The, the fact that it’s not just the individual transactions, you’re, you’re losing, you’re, you’re losing that entire leverage because you should be viewing it as an ecosystem that you’re building and you’re losing it to a competitor. It’s very real you know, when you first start and open a business, you’re really, you know, hustling to get your name known to have great reviews to have customers and in doing that, that’s your base. You know, none of us wanna hustle as hard as we did our first year, 18 months, the rest of our lives, right. So you want to be able to build that, as you said, ecosystem that is really out there being a voice for you. Um being someone that can refer you um and you know, working and keeping up that relationship, you know, the people paint every couple of years. And so you wanna make sure that they are gonna come back to you, they may move and they painting in their house, they may have a neighbor that needs it. And so you want to know that that’s gold, that’s really what, what builds the system. And so you have to build that up and if you, if you miss scaling during that opportunity, you’re gonna lose that value and make it harder on yourself in the long run. Yeah, I think the leveraging your existing customers, leveraging your past leads, leveraging referrals. I think it’s one of the most undervalued things in the industry. And I like how you just put it there, which you and I sync on this a lot. We commiserate, we try to figure out strategies to get, get painting companies to move forward and, and actually do this stuff, but you really talk to the pain there. The first, I’ve started a couple of businesses the first year, the 1st 18 months, I don’t like it that much. I’ll be frank that eating. Right. You’re not making a lot of money. You’re, you’re putting together all the infrastructure. You’re dealing with headaches. You’re scrambling for the initial sales, I think. Maybe we should speak and salt to that pain a little bit more because then maybe people lean into this, into this leveraging of their network somewhere. Sure. Well, when you start your business and you know, a fresh coat, you are the only fresh coat in your territory. And so you are, you know, really the face of your painting company and you are really um you have to have people to get to know like and trust you, especially in our world because we’re actually in your physically, in your home with your family while we’re painting. And so we have to be able to get that word out. And so that doesn’t happen. Um only digitally, it digitally is a portion of it, but the other portion is your face, your name, where, where you’re at, what, how you’re supporting other things in the community. Um How are you networking? How are you helping other people network so that they’ll help you. That is really, I call it the Spider Web of small business. Um When I was a franchisee with a different franchise and I, when I, I built my business, it was interesting to me because I’ve not been in small business before that, how much everyone is connected and how many times you have to see someone before they truly trust you. And when you’re out and about people will come up to you and say, oh my gosh, I was going to call you because I have someone that would be interested in your service. And I always used to think, would they have had time or would they have remembered if they had not ran into me? So, you know, being that visible, showing up, you know, and at a lot of things, you can’t just show up part of the time and then have people trust that you’re gonna really do what you say you’re gonna do, right? So there is a, an image that a business owner has to have in the community that really builds that trust that can make that painful time frame a lot shorter. Yeah. And the um I like how you put that the spider web of the small businesses. So, so many painting company owners talk about how they grow through word of mouth. And then when you actually figure out what that means, the word of mouth is extremely passive, which is good. OK. So they came in, they, they did a good enough project that someone referred them, but you’re talking about an active intentional approach where you’re actually reaching out to them, you’re asking for referrals, you know, ideally have some sort of professional referral program, you’re going to networking events, you’re leveraging maybe realtors, interior designers, things like that. Um And creating this ecosystem and then combining that with effective digital marketing is where you, you just see huge gains because that digital marketing becomes your networking as well. Right? I’m still top of mind. I’m providing um information that helps, you know, the community and you know, all of it works. I um I laugh about yard signs because um they are inexpensive to purchase and you see them all over the place and the reason you see them all over the place is because they work, right? And um in my neighborhood, um unfortunately, we don’t have a fresh coat in Indianapolis, Indiana. So if any of my friends are listening, that’s a great place to open a business. But in my neighborhood, I was out walking my dogs and saw a painting sign and I thought, oh my gosh. And it was more, it was a local company and I thought that’s great. That’s, you know, I get excited about painting now that I’m the prisoner of fresh Go. And then two days later I saw it three houses down and since then I have seen it at seven different homes and you know, people to you and say, hey, I saw you’re getting your house painted, like who did it? Because, you know, in today’s world, it’s hard to know who you can trust and who provides really good painting. And so you wanna make sure that if you’re, if you can trust anyone, it’s got to be your neighbor, right? And uh, so those, those types of activities as well as digital, you know, seeing it on Facebook and seeing one of your neighbors like it or someone that, you know, that immediately can add a level of trust that you just can’t buy. Yeah, so I’m gonna go down a little bit of a tangent here but bear with me. So, so our house flooded as you know, and, and you know, it’s a repeated thing. So the house flooded and, and my wife doesn’t like it. I don’t know why, but she, she gets, you know, kind of irritated when we have to move this stuff out, move the kids out and all this stuff. She’s always like, hey, I don’t live here anymore. Like I don’t understand what the problem is, but this time I was like, maybe I should try to fix it. So I went and, and I started door knocking in neighborhoods that we thought would potentially be a good fit. And some of these neighborhoods uh had also had houses that flooded but flooded minimally, whereas we flooded like 260 ft. So definitely much more elevated, better situation. But as I knocked on these doors, the thing that was jarring to me and quite frankly, a little bit terrifying was how nosy people are and how much they know about their neighbors. And they’re like, well, Mr Smith and well, this person and that you should check with this. I was like, oh my God, please leave me alone. Please stop, stop knowing everything about everyone. But I’m like, wow, there’s also super magic because they see a paint project. I guarantee you many of them will be, are, are going to be feeling some, some sort of jealousy or FOMO or, or like, ok. Who? Wow, that looks great. Who’d you get it done? And I think painters, they just come in, they do the project, they leave, they, they’re not canvassing the neighborhood, they’re not putting up yard site, they’re not trying to leverage that opportunity, uh anywhere near the amount that they should be. It’s 333% true. And, you know, I think we, as humans put off things, right. So, unless something is going to force us, whether we’re moving, whether it’s an event, whether we’ve finally just decided to do it, you know, we, we think about it, we’re triggered by it. Oh, yeah, I did want to do that. Oh, yeah, I should do that. Oh, yeah. I bet their house looks better than my bill. You know, that type of thing. So you, you have that natural human emotion that, you know, that envy, you know, what are they doing? And, and also part of that fear in putting it off is I don’t really know anyone. What if they’re not good. Um, you know, so this way you have somebody that’s tested the waters for you and so that just becomes much easier than to move forward. Yeah. Something else related to that. I want back to what you said, which I think would be very easy to miss is you said that Americans are probably people in general, but we know here that we tend to put things off, tend to procrastinate. And it’s like, oh man, I really need to get this done. And painting is oftentimes one of those things, but I don’t, we work with a lot of painting company owners and that’s not something that I hear from them. And I think there, there’s this big, there’s this big uh mistake that’s being made where the, the painting company owner or salesman in general is not thinking about things from the perspective of who they are selling to from their, their target avatar. And when you say, hey, they, they tend to put it off. So they’re not gonna want to wait a long time because it’s usually, oh wow. Like I probably should have done this already. That’s something that very much needs to be factored into your sales and marketing. It does. And I, I think too that, you know, we believe that they’re going to buy in our time frame. I think you mentioned earlier transactional that we think everything, transactional. So you called me and we’re available, they call, they’re gonna pay us the money, tell them to. And that’s that and, and I, you know, everybody has a limited amount of money, right? And so they’ve got different pockets that they can use it from. So I can choose to paint my house or I can go to Disney World or I can, you know, do, do something different with my money, do a deck, do whatever. And so if you do not have, if you don’t really understand why the customer is wanting to purchase and be able to um provide in the home, that experience, if they feel so comfortable that they want to move forward, they may take a little bit of time. And so if we do not have that follow up with them, they could, something else could jump in front of you. And so some people, you know, even though we put it off, we might take a long time to decide, you know, or we may be busy. And so we just don’t answer you, but that doesn’t mean that because you’re sending me emails and because you’re calling me, everyone’s gonna choose at a different point in that transaction. And, and that can be up to nine or 210 different times that you’ve reached out to them. And um in America, you know, three strikes are out, but that’s really dangerous in marketing your business because the average is closer to 333 to 22025. So you have missed so much business and it’s great to go out there and look for new leads. But, you know, you also have these that are precious to you. And you have to say to yourself, have I given everything I have to these as I’m bringing in new leads but not walking away from this gold mine I might have sitting right there. Yeah. So the, I think there’s a, another point that you said that, that meshes well with this. So this idea that a lot of homeowners are maybe apprehensive or don’t know who they can trust. Uh, you know, a lot of homeowners have negative perceptions of contractors in general. And so if they need to get an electrician or a painter, the concern is they’re going to be ripped off or they’re going to do a shoddy job and not return or whatever or maybe they’re going to be unsafe in the home. So I think you combine that with the fact that people naturally just delay in getting things done and they’re gonna delay. I know for myself when I have major things and I’m a little unclear on how to do it or I think, oh, my gosh, this is, this is gonna be kind of a lift. I’m gonna have to do re I will push it off. But then I see if someone’s done that homework for me, if my neighbor is getting the, the painter painted down. I’m gonna go ask him. Hey, how was it? It looks great. Oh, yeah, they were great. They were friendly. They were safe. They’re, wow. Thank God. So you just saved me a bunch of time. Now. I don’t have to go through all that effort. I’m just probably gonna use them. That is the way that it works. And I think everybody, if they look in the mirror personally, we’ve all done that. Right? So it, it makes sense to us as to why it happens that way. So the, and then, and then I’m beating the heck out of this point. But the idea that that you are somehow permanent in the homeowner’s mind after you’re done, I think we, we think that, well, we had this great rapport, they, they left us a review. They were really excited about it. They have no idea who you are like a monthly and think, you know, six months a year or two years from now, they’ll definitely come back. They have absolutely no idea who you are. You must stay in front of them. Right? And I think it’s that comfort level because in most cases, you’re not just unless your neighbor has suggested that may be, you may have, you know, a one up in the conversation, but if you’re talking to three or four people there, you have to have, um, not only be memorable, but the, the customer has to feel like, somehow you understand what I’m wanting, whether, you know, there’s different people that are more interested in the, the type of paint that you’re using or the technical process of the painting or how will you treat my home? There’s also a large segment that is doing it for the cosmetic reason, right? They have seen something, they’ve always wanted it done this way. Their neighbor three doors down has like the perfect, you know, room that they want to have as well. And so they want you to also embrace why they’re excited and that you want them to be able to know I get you. I hear you this, we’re gonna do this for you and, and this is what it’s gonna look like for you when you’re done so that you and your family can enjoy movie night in this room, whatever it may be. Um But if you don’t have that connection in the home, um that’s also equally hard and the digital marketing really helps bring that emotion alive every time they hear from you, even if they don’t call you back, right at that moment, they might be busy when you texted them, they might be busy, but even eventually they will remember it and say, OK, yes, I do want to get that done and um but it’s on their time, not ours. And so sometimes we just move on because they haven’t answered, but we have to remember. They called us this is what they wanted. We’re excited, we know what they wanted and so we have to just keep trying until they tell us no. And then that’s ok. Um, because we’ve already connected with them and they know that, you know, we’re good quality people and that you can trust us. Yeah. So they, uh, a lot of estimators wanna go in and they wanna take the measurements and then they want to speak to the technical specs and why, what they’re doing is gonna last longer and how many coats and, and this and that, and a lot of times that is just noise to the homeowner. It’s not resonating with them at all. So you need to sell, sell to what they want, figure out what they want. Why are they doing it? What’s the purpose behind it? And then sell to that dream? And that comes down to the sales process which I know fresh coat trains your franchisees on. You guys actually have training through it. You have coaching through, you have a lot of individual coaching on it. And that’s a big piece that I think the painting industry overall is missing, but fresh coat painters does offer and it’s huge. You do. So, you know so much of what you’re purchasing when you purchase a franchise are the proven processes and sops that you would have to develop on your own, which again can make that ramp up, time painful when you open a business if you don’t have those. So we have those, those guidelines and, you know, sometimes people are more comfortable doing some of it than others. So that’s why we provide the ongoing coaching support to help you overcome that fear because, you know, sales, not everyone wants to be a salesperson. Actually, most Americans do not want to be a sales person. Um But yeah, they’re just, you’re just servicing the client in front of you, you’re giving them what they want. So if you’re a person that likes to, you know, help people, um if you like to make people happy, those, those are really what you’re doing in the home is you’re providing for them. Um All of those things that they are asking for and so we help you with those processes of what that looks like. So what questions to ask, how to respond, how often to follow up. So all of those things come into play. So you have the playbook, but then you also have your coach who’s coaching you from the sidelines, giving you that encouragement, helping you overcome where you need to and keep you consistent because consistency is really the key to any great business. And so that’s what we provide. Yeah, I love it. You guys give a proven playbook. I mean, you, you’re, you’re close to how many franchisees now in this hit 2200 in the new year. That’s amazing. Congratulations. That’s celebration. Yeah, that’s huge. So you, you’re about to hit 1003 franchisees, meaning you guys have been, are doing this for almost 2100 different companies. That’s a lot of data to collect in terms of sales marketing ops. This is a refined system and then you have a, a coach. So you have this proven playbook. You have a coach that’s working directly with each franchise owner to not only hold them accountable but also take their specific circumstance into account because every different location is go, is going to be different. Absolutely. We do like right now it’s the, the end of the year and we’re gonna start business planning with our owners and, you know, if you don’t have a plan, you’re not gonna get there. Right. So we wanna be able to look at what worked last year, um, where we know we probably need to dig a little bit deeper. What do our leads need to look like on a monthly basis to help us break even and how we build that plan. And that plan is business marketing. It’s all components together. But the real important part about your business plan is the review of it monthly because monthly is really where you’re gonna be able to see your on path, you’re on track. Um, you’re gonna be able to break down what’s working and what’s not. Um, so many business owners continue to just spend money because somebody told them to. And that’s right. But you can see in your numbers. Is it really working or is it not, or should you be adjusting for your marketing plan based on, you know, what your market wants? Uh, the season of the year, there’s a lot of different things that go into play and so you can’t just build it and set it off to the corner and wipe dust off of it because that’s really gonna be, are you going to get to where you want to go? And you know, that’s if you, if you’re going to somewhere, you know, you don’t use a gps, right? You just get in the car and you go, but if you are going to go to someplace different, which you would hope your business is growing and you’re going to get to a new milestone, you’re gonna need to use your gps the first time so that you can get there. And that’s really the importance of the support that we provide that you’d have to do on your own. Um If you’re, you know, an independent. Yeah. So the, and your background, Lisa was not in the painting industry prior to this. No. Um I’ve learned a lot in the year that I’ve been here, but you most certainly would never want me to paint your home. But I have great, I can refer you to lots of really great people that can. Um, my background was in, um, in retail, I ran large stores for a major department store. And in that I would have multiple managers, I would help them grow their business. And from there jumped off and owned my own franchise called the Growth Coach, which is one of our sister brands. And so my role was really to go into um businesses, medium and small businesses and help them identify and then it always came down to just a couple of things. It I always start with the profitability of your business. Um So it would start there. But the, the reasons behind it was either there were leadership opportunities in coaching their team members or there was not a process in place for scaling or just in, in, in any general thing. It was all in the owner’s head. And so he had lots of, he had hired people that wanted to help them, but they didn’t know what to do. So those processes are really important. So it kind of all fed back to what a franchise does. And so that kind of led me back to, uh the Fresh Coat, um to help in that, that realm with, um, our owners as well and our coaches, um we, you know, the great thing about our team is that we have, um we have 3333 years of Franchising experience. Um And we also really have the heart for the franchisee. Our, our day is spent wanting to help them, wanting to help them drive their business, wanting them to help them from themselves, sometimes wanting to help them learn new ideas about the industry and, and to, to help them move forward. And so that has really kind of been my career path is in that servant leadership of how can I help you and how can we, you know, get over something that’s holding us back. What is that fear and kind of talking them through it? Um You know, no one thrives under somebody just telling you what to do. It’s really stepping back and asking questions and then helping them to see things differently. So they’ll move forward and that’s the whole, the whole way that you grow your business. Yeah. So I can personally testify to your guys, you know, involvement in how much you assist the franchisees. I think we’re working with north of 22 of your franchisees right now and you, you guys are very actively involved day to day giving them what they need, answering questions, sometimes saving them from themselves. I have not seen this level of support previously. I think it’s phenomenal. That’s why I’m a huge fan of Fresco. Thank you. One of the things I want to touch on. So he talked about painting companies reaching out and then giving up after maybe two or three times and strike you out and how that’s not the case with sales. The we you and I have discussed this at length. It’s been another thing we’re trying to, to make sure everyone understands is, is not viewing leads on a month to month basis, but really viewing leads on something more like a rolling 90 day basis because this buying time frame is longer, especially with high inflation. And then this year was an election year. A lot of uncertainty, people tend to take longer, making buying decisions. Let’s speak to that for a second. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, I think in our mind, you know, a, a monthly we, I had 35 leads last month. Um I want, I should have more this month. Um but a lot of, there’s a lot of variables, right? And so, um it depends on, you know, what we’re doing digitally and what we’re doing organically for one thing. But um it takes a long time to work through those 30 leads, right? Whether it’s doing the quote and then following up on the quote and all of that is still work that has to be done and while new leads are coming in, um you still have a whole bank that you’re still working on. So, um you want them to be manageable or you’ve got a scale even more to have that system that keeps that, that happening for you. And um you know, I kind of joke around some time and say that, you know, there’s not a landfill in your territory full of painting leads where we just keep going back to the, well, we just keep dragging them back out. That’s not how that works. There’s only so many people in your world that has said, hey, I would like to have some painting done. And so if they’ve said that, then it’s our, our role to provide again the best service and then the best follow up, you know, and um I remember I had to follow up in my business as well and I would always say, hey, I am not trying to, you know, be too much for you, but I haven’t heard back from you. I know when we talk, this is what you really wanted. So I’m ok if it’s a no, just tell me, but I don’t want to give up on you because you were so excited about this opportunity and, and that’s really what you’re doing is you’re helping them to make a decision in a way that you’re providing what they asked for. And if it’s not now, that’s great. If it’s a no going for the no is really important too because then you’re not gonna spend your precious time working with someone who’s told you no. And I think um we automatically think not replying is a no or they’re ghosting us. Um But we’ve had people come back up to four months and say yes, I do want that done. Now in our mind, we’re not thinking it should take that long, but that’s, that’s their prerogative. That’s when they wanted to do it. And so you do have to really kind of think about how do I keep going for the, know how these leads accumulate? They don’t just hoof in that month, they’re accumulating all throughout the year. And you’ve got to figure out how to manage all of them differently, to be able to get the results that you want. Yeah. If you have not heard a definitive no, then it is not a definitive. No. And I think going for the no, no is a valuable word in sales and people fear it. People think it means they did something wrong. You should hear it the majority of the time. If you, if you hear yes, the majority of the time you’re charging too, too little. So you should be hearing no, what you shouldn’t be hearing is nothing means you’re not following up enough and then when you get no, especially if you deliver the proposal in the home and you have an opportunity to speak to it, you can ask why. So now you’re actually getting feedback and it might not be while the price was too high, right? Or they say the price is too high, there’s, there’s usually a level or two below. You haven’t demonstrated the value, you haven’t differentiated your company. It gives you an opportunity to learn more about your sales process and how you might be able to improve. But if you just don’t hear back and you’re just like, well, I guess they’re not interested, then you didn’t learn anything. All you did was waste time. Yeah. And I think too, I think the under utilized is the phone call, right? So we, we will say, or I’ll hear people say, well, I have a drip campaign so they’re getting emails and that’s great. But I don’t read my email, my personal email, emails every hour, every day. But my, my personal emails, I don’t always, I might skim through them and if nothing catches my attention, then I may look at it more the next day. So we’re assuming that they’re like, oh, thank God, they wrote me an email and I’m going to ignore it. That phone call also gives you the opportunity to really hear what they have to say. And again, it’s, it’s all part of your learning, you know, you, you walk away and go ok, that they, that was the reason they didn’t buy it. I need to work with my team on that to make sure we’re talking more about the value of what we do. Um, maybe we needed to connect at a different level. How long were we in the home? And what kind of conversations did we have? Can and you know, do we know exactly why they wanted the painting done that communication and what it also does is, you know, people are more loyal to people who listen. So if I have had the opportunity to tell you no and you’re professional and you say thank you so much and I appreciate that feedback. They are more likely to refer you even though they didn’t work with you. And so you don’t want to miss that opportunity either as you’re building, you know, your base. What a good point. Yeah, graciously accepting the, no. And, and being super professional because again, the fear of the homeowner how I, my fear when I have homeowners come in or contractors come in is if I tell them no, they, they won’t be nice. They’ll be rude, they’ll be upset. It will be awkward. Right. I think that’s, and that’s a lot of people’s fear. So when you can demonstrate that you are not that way, you’ve already super differentiated your business. Absolutely. And you know, and sometimes just not now. Right. So you don’t want to not have that opportunity to continue to connect with them so that when it is now they’re the, you’re the one that they think of. And, and again, that’s how you build a base of business where you’re not worried every second about the leads that you’re getting in is because you’ve built this ecosystem as you called it, that kind of all works together to help you to continue to grow and, and you have, you know, digital leads who don’t know, you, you have organic leads that do know you, you have many ways that you’re getting those leads that are going to help you to continue to grow your business. So painter marketing pros is rolling out quarterly, quarterly database reactivation for our partners. So we reach out by email and S MS that being said, the majority of our business is new leads. So what I’m about to say, I think should carry some weight. New leads are the most expensive and most challenging leads. You can get, you should, you get them in and you get them in ultimately to build that network and that ecosystem. But once they’re in, they should be yours. They, they should be yours. The, the street should be yours. Their friends and neighbors and family should all be yours. That’s your, that’s really where the value is, is building that, that internal network. I would agree 100%. And, you know, as a business owner, I kind of talked about what more monthly you need to go back and look at your statistics and your business plan. That’s something you really need to look at. If we’ve gone into a neighborhood and we painted only one home and we did all the activities of a great project for this owner. We um, have gotten a review. Did we put out the sign? Did we knock on doors? And if, if we never ever get one from that neighborhood again, you have to think to yourself. Ok. We missed something. What could that be? And you learn from it? Right. And then, you know, the next time you’re going to do things a little bit different because you, you should be able to get more than one out of one neighborhood to really expand your business. It would be interesting to create a heat map of sorts, right? Actually, points on a map about the different homes that you’ve served. That’s a great point because that’s a great visual for you to see is every step that we’re doing from the time the lead comes in until, you know, afterwards, you know, how is that? Um helping us expand and grow and did we miss a piece that we can lead and educate and teach our team um how to handle it differently as we go forward? And are they part of that process too? Right. They should know when they go to that project that this is just, we don’t want this to be a one home deal. We want to fill it and we want to be able to also see what else are we going to be able to harvest from that neighborhood? Yeah, 100%. And that homeowner per statistics is going to have another painting project 2.5 years later. And you should be doing that project, you, your business as you talked about that first year, you know, you’re going to say, OK, I just worked with, you know, Susan. And so I’m gonna put her two years out maybe 3333 months to start marketing to her again so that I, I’m building those years ahead. So that again, more of my business is more automated than it was at the beginning. Yeah. It’s tough when you’re new in business because you’re the new kid on the block dress code can change that because that brand awareness is already out there. But if you’re, if you’re in a new location, it’s still more challenging in the beginning. You don’t want to purposely stay the new kid on the block. You want to change that. Yeah, absolutely. Because you’re learning and you’re growing yet. That’s the thing about being a business owner is that you are definitely gonna come in with some great knowledge and great skills from whatever your background is. But you’re also gonna learn and sometimes that’s by skinning your knee and then getting back up and saying, OK, I got, I’ve learned that not going to do that again or I’m going to do this next time. And that’s really how you learn and that’s what makes it I think, fun and challenging, right? Because you are making the difference, you are deciding those decisions. And that’s the great part about being any type of business owner. So I, I wanna kind of go deep on something interesting that I learned. Uh recently it was new to me, it makes a lot of sense and I think I have messed up here. So I went to an acquisition. com workshop with Alex or Mosey um about a month ago, a month or two ago. Got to meet him. Very cool. I’m, I’m a huge fan of him. Uh He’s got a podcast called The Game Very successful entrepreneur. And one of the things that he talked about is actually his team talked about is that there are high information buyers and there are low information buyers and so high information buyers, they want to learn a lot. They wanna take their time, they wanna receive the information, they want to digest it, they want to talk about it, they want to think about it some more. And then ultimately, they’re going to move forward, but they’re going to take their time. They, the, the pro of being a high information buyer is you usually don’t make impulsive decisions that you regret the con of being a a high information buyer. Sometimes you miss opportunity. So just kind of like uh low information buyer, they tend to be more spontaneous. That’s me. I am a low information buyer. If II I joke to my wife, like if we went to a time share thing, it’s not even really a joke. Uh I would buy the timeshare, I would go in and I would say there’s no way I know what they’re doing and I will walk out and I will try to convince her that we should do it baby. Like this is a great idea because I am a low information buyer and I just, you know, in, in terms of me, my buying, um, pattern is not good. That being said, I think it’s so interesting when you look at it from a sales perspective because we get instantly rewarded by the low information buyer. So the homeowner you go in and the, the person who doesn’t need a bunch, they don’t need a bunch of follow up. They don’t, they’re just like, you know what I like you. Yeah, let’s move for maybe I’ll get one more quote, but it’s not gonna take me long. Ok, let’s move forward. So then we think, wow, that’s how we have to sell because they move forward. So we’re only gonna sell that way because that’s where we get all the positive feedback. But statistics tell us that 60% of people are high information. So that means you’re taking everything from those a little bit, kind of like Pavlov’s dog, right? The, the ringing bell and you’re gonna get the food, you’re taking that immediate feedback and you’re basically saying, well, this is how the world is and you’re neglecting the 60% of people who are taking their time. You’re just not gonna worry about it because you quote unquote, lost, that, lost that lead. Right? Isn’t that interesting? It is super interesting and of course, we love that. Right. Those are our favorite, favorite ones. And then we get frustrated when everyone’s not like that. We all love to sell it to you Brandon and um, I’m a good person to sell to, I will buy from you and, and, and so if you get hooked into that, you’re gonna have an OK business, right? You’ve got 40% of people are gonna say yes to you and you’re gonna have a business, but it’s not gonna be the business that you want if you don’t take into account the other 60 learn how to, to sell to them as well. And you know, those folks, as you said are, have more questions, right? So we’re not always following up just to close the deal. We’re like, well, what questions do you have? I know it’s been a couple of days since I’ve been there. I know that you and your wife have been discussing it. So what questions came up that I can answer for you? Or was there anything that I said that I can reiterate? And I think in our mind we’re like, well, they have their proposal, they’ll read it. You know about that many people actually read the document too, right? So, you know, and if you’ve got several people coming in to give you a quote with four different proposals, you’re gonna forget which one is what? So again, it’s that servicing when I say it’s not selling, it’s servicing, you know, hey Brandon, I was in your home. I wanna be able to answer some questions for you or is there anything that came up since I left you that I can answer for you. That’s a different text or phone call voicemail than is, hey, I was wanting to know if you, we could get started painting, right? Maybe, maybe I’m not gonna answer that, but I might call you back and say I did have two questions. So you said blah, blah, blah, blah, I just want to check to make sure. That’s right. That’s all great dialogue and it helps with that decision making process. Um But sometimes people feel like they’re being too pushy. I don’t want to bother people, you know, and, and you will occasionally get someone that’s like leave me alone and that’s, that’s OK. That is a very clear. No, and we understand it, we’re going to be respectful, but the majority of people are not going to behave like that. They appreciate people in today’s world who actually are kind and follow up because it’s a kind of a lost art. And so there is the ability to really impress them or for them to even say I didn’t go with them. But man, they were so kind and they kept following up. So probably worth a phone call to you. That’s gold too. So you can’t look at everything as just the transaction. It is the different types of buyers and the way that we interact with them. And I think the if you never received that negative feedback, so if no one ever tells you to stop bothering you, then it means that you are not following up nearly enough because there are dollars into the streets. There are people who get triggered by anything. So if you’re doing any, any sort of volume of estimates, then you are absolutely providing an estimate to somebody who will get triggered quite quickly. And if zero people are getting triggered by your follow up, then you essentially don’t have follow up. Yeah. And if you’re not comfortable with it as a business owner, then that’s how you scale and you hire someone who’s great at it, right? We all have our own superpowers. We all have the things that we love to do and we’re super passionate about. Um So if that’s not your thing, you need to find someone that can do that for you if you want to have a healthy business, uh the 333. So going back to, to kind of where we kicked off. How did you guys come up with that? The, the three rings, the three, you’re gonna, you’re gonna answer the phone within three rings, you’re gonna provide the quote within three days. You’re gonna start the project within three weeks. You know, I wish I could answer that for you. Someone very smart way ahead of my time with freshco um brought that to our attention that that would be a great business model and, and I know you’ve spoken to Sarah Ross. She did a great podcast with you and, and it had to be back then. She has been with us, you know, over 10 years. And that is really how she has grown her business to be. Our number one volume owner is following that religiously. She is very structured in her thought process. And so she really, even when it felt like it was a risk to her, she still did it and it is really paid off well for her and her community and all the people she employs, which is one of my favorite things about some of our top owners is it’s never just about them. They’re in it to help their community and to help all the people they employ. And I love that part of their hearts and how they, and they’ve been rewarded for that by their business continuing to grow. Yeah, Sarah is phenomenal, phenomenal owner and a phenomenal leader when now you had said, ok, if you aren’t able to meet the 333, if you’re, if you’re becoming, you know, I, I guess so busy that you’re finding that. Ok, now we’re, we can’t provide that quote for, for four days or six days or you, we can’t actually get you on the, on the books until five weeks out because we’re just booked out too far. That’s a sign to that. Maybe you need to start scaling and you need to start building your team because you don’t have operational capacity. Are there other signs that you guys, you guys look for it? Like, hey, this might be another sign that it, it, it’s time to start hiring. Yeah, I think, you know, there’s always the volume opportunity. And are you utilizing, you know, we um focus on uh residential national accounts and commercials. So are you getting all of your, you know, pieces of the pie of that program? So that will also to tell you if you’re only in stuck in one, what is the, you know, what are you leaving on the table again? That can help you grow your business? Um I think the other is the, the lifestyle of the owner. If the owner is now not the, the business owner, but a doer, then that’s when you know that you have to, you know, and, and you know, that’s scary, right? But what happens is if you don’t do it, you’re like, I just can’t do it. What if I don’t have enough leads? But because your head is down and you’re in the business, you’re not out helping to bring in those leads in the community in organic and working with their marketing plan, analyzing their business, you’re kind of holding yourself back. And so you personally know, and this is starting to feel like a job that I’m going to go do every single day and my head is in it, then, you know, at that point that I’ve really got to find and that’s where you kind of decide what is that next piece that you need, you know, hiring painters or utilizing subcontractors? That’s a little easier, right? Because I’m as the owner, I’m not painting. So that, that’s an easier one. But then what do I need? So if I’m the owner that says, you know what, I don’t want to have to call and follow up with, it’s not my thing, I’ll greet them, but I don’t want to have to do that. Then I need to scale and find someone that does that. Whether that’s an estimator or project manager or a networking specialist or maybe I don’t like to go into networking. I need to find someone that’s going to be the face of fresh code out in the market. That’s where you’re gonna really decide. OK, this is what I need. It’s holding me back. I can see it’s holding my numbers back and I’m gonna have to take a leap of faith, but I’m gonna have to do what I say. I’m going to do when I take that leap of faith, right? You have to have a plan and a strategy of what are they going to do and what am I gonna do to help bring in the income to pay for that additional piece? Yeah. And uh business ownership in general is already a leap of faith. We’re already playing an unpredictable game. Yeah, you are. And it is fun because you get to make the decisions. Right. That’s when we talk to people that are wanting to open their own business. You know, I don’t want, I don’t want to have to work so hard for someone else. So you’re working so hard for yourself. But that also means that you have to and, and that’s why I like the support that we provide because that is a normal place for owners to get stuck. Right? And there’s a lot of fear that surrounds it and that’s why it’s nice that you have the support of our Fresh Coat team to really step back and look at it with you objectively is what your guts saying, right? Or is what the numbers are saying? Right? What should you hire, when should you hire them so that we, you have someone to bounce ideas off. I mean, I was a business coach because there were many, many business owners that needed that in their business to grow and move forward. And oddly enough, I actually had a lot of franchise owners that I worked with too because they weren’t getting it from their franchise. And so that’s why I’m so passionate as the president of Fresh Coat that our coaching has to be world class because that sets us apart and that’s really how we help the owners. And if our heart is, you wanna help them, then we have to be there to help support, give tough love, give a little nudging and help you get what you want because that it’s not about us. It’s really, it’s what you want, what you want this business to look like now in the future and as your legacy for either to, you know, your Children to run or for you to sell and get a great price out of it, it is very important to your life. That’s why you purchased it. So we’re here to serve you. Yeah, you guys have, have very extensive coaching. And I was actually, so Sarah Sarah Ross, she’s one of um she’s a partner of Paint American Pros and I was on a call with her yesterday. We’re planning for 2025 and she told me that you’ve been pushing her and, and for some time to hire an administrative assistant said, hey, Sarah, you’re well past the time that you should have done that. So I think e even the President of Fresh Coat will go get involved even though you have almost 200 franchisees and will actually individually talk with the owners. I think that speaks of volumes to Fresh Coat. Yeah, it’s the favorite part of my day to talk with them to, to be honest with you. So I do love that. So we’ve talked about not fully leveraging past leads past customers and, and not focusing on this ecosystem. We’ve talked about not following up enough, talked about the sales process, not being dialed in enough. Um the 333 being, I think a recommendation anyone could take and implement and would really help their business. Are there other, you know, you, you have access to so much data and you work with so many painting company owners. Are there other things that you see just big mistakes in the industry that, that people could learn from or maybe things that you’ve seen work really well that for some reason, a lot of painting company owners are not doing sure. I think it again, it’s tailing your tail, tailoring your approach, right? It’s very different. You’re gonna be working with the GC and, and how that conversation is gonna go and how, how to budget appropriately because there’s usually a delay in payment compared to residential. Um and then in the residential, you know, who is the customer that you’re, you’re, you’re working with? And you can go through your customer records and see that a very high proportion of the residential um interior buyers or the people that you’re quoting to are female, right? And so are you tailoring that approach so that we get excited about whatever HGTV show they’re excited about and they want it to look like, right? Is it on their Pinterest board? Like what are those things that and if you don’t know what a Pinterest board is and you’re the one doing the estimating that could be a little bit of a separation for the excitement to build that trust. And so those, those are some of the things you kind of just have to know, you know, who will I be meeting in the home? So you can prepare for the conversation in a way that is going to be appropriate and, um, comfortable and, you know, the estimate, they just trust we’re gonna be able to do a good estimate. Right. That, that is not something they sit up and worry about. It’s what we do, it’s what our job is. But, you know, they want to know that, you know, their home is going to be treated with great respect. They wanna know that whatever they’re gonna use the room for that, we’re gonna help them select the right paint to last. Um, we, they want to know that we’re not gonna get stuff all over their, their stuff. They wanna know if we’re gonna be there on time because I might have had to take off work or hid my Children so that you can be in the home for a couple of hours and that you’re gonna be out of there when you say you’re gonna be out of there and you’re not gonna have to come back the next day because that can impact my personal life. So I have to feel and trust all of that when you leave and give me the quote, um, or give me the quote and leave. Um, and if I don’t feel that then that’s, that’s a problem and that’s an opportunity for growth. And so that’s just one of the things that we’ve really found is that you, you have to be able to understand all of that so that you are giving every, you know, every quote the best shot that you’ve got. Yeah. So the HGTV Pinterest board that may be for people who are listening and maybe you’ve never watched HGTV or you don’t really know what they focus on or you’ve never logged into what’s the color of the year, right? Or what are the most five most popular colors? Like that’s important for an owner to know because that’s, you’re knowledgeable, right? You’re getting excited about how they’re going to use the space and, and you are now in this with them and they can’t see doing it without you. That, that again is, is really important thing. The other thing I would say to you is that, you know, the quality of your painters is gonna make or break you, right? Because if they, if they understand the standards, if they are great at what they do, if they do great quality work the first time. So we don’t have to do anything to go back or we at least really walk it as a customer or with the customer to make sure they’re 100% satisfied. And that gets us the five star rating. That is, that is the key and the goal to what you’re doing right. So that has to be really buttoned up. So you have to find great painters, um give them feedback, um make them part of the process and part of the celebration and, and, and make sure that that piece because the more that they paint, the more productive they are, the, the more projects you can do um go back, going back is not something that I would ever classify as great customer service. I feel like it’s great if you handle something that’s not right. And you handled it well for the customer. That’s very important. But how could we have stopped that before we ever left the home? Who was the critical eye that was there walking with the customer making sure they feel great. Um because that’s just time wasted and that’s money wasted and it’s also a disappointment even if you turn it into a positive at the end. Sure. Yeah, you don’t want to be doing that all the time. Let let’s um I wanna dive into that for a second. The quality of the painters. How do we do that if we’re using subcontractors? Yeah. Um I will tell you, we have um a lot of owners that are really good at this and um Brian Denny is um in Dayton, Ohio and he’s really good at holding them accountable, right? He um trains them on their standards and that is on the job training so that you if you’re going to be a subcontractor for me. You’re going to make sure that you understand exactly what I just went through. You’re, you’re still part of my team. Um, you’re part of my team for that day. Oftentimes we’ll ask them to put a fresh coat magnet on their vehicle that’s sitting in the driveway so that, you know, it’s seamless. You are part of our team and so your expectations are the same. And I think that goes again back to your project manager or if it’s the owner, really the first few projects that they do that you’re there at the beginning in the middle and at the end to just make sure that they are providing the level of service that we, we want to have. So then you feel more comfortable as you’re using them going forward. Um But um you know, usually our, our guys um really focus on hiring their own painters and then also using um subcontractors for one business flexes. So you can get to that 333. And so they are using a lot of the same subcontract subcontractors over and over. And so through that you get to build a relationship, but they have to be part of your or feel like they’re part of your fresh coat team. They’ve got the fresh coat shirts on, they are representing you. So you’d have to give them the same um great positive and constructive feedback as you and your own team members. And it goes back to the, the marketing ecosystem we talked about because then when you, when you have an effective ecosystem, you have more consistent lead flow. When you have more consistent lead flow, then you can keep them busier. When you keep them, it can be, it can more closely mimic a W-2 relationship and, and they’ll abide by the standards and they’ll want to perform great work because you’re able to keep them fed all year round. You’re absolutely right. They want to go where they can feel consistent. Um, you know, employment and that’s, you know, what you want to be able to provide, Lisa. This has been absolutely incredible. It’s been a, a wealth of insight. I appreciate you sharing everything before you wrap up this episode. Is there anything else you want us to know? Um You know, what if you are interested in um owning your own painting company and you happen to be listening to this? So we would love to have a conversation with you. Um You know, if you’re going to start a business, we’re excited for you, whether you join Fresh Coat or whether you decide to do it with your by yourself or with someone else, um, would love to have the opportunity to speak to you to just kind of talk about what are the, the options and what does it look like so that you make the best decision um for your future? Because it is a very, very fun ride to own your own business. And, you know, this is my second round in Franchising. And I’ll tell you, I love it. I love the community and um I love what I do every day. I love it. Who should they contact if they’re interested in exploring a partnership with Fresco? Sure. So you could reach out to Leo Haley who is our vice president of um, a franchise development. We also have a fresh coat uh franchise um website that you could utilize as well and go on there and fill out a form or if you want to reach out to me through linkedin, I can get you connected um to talk to someone today. I love it. Uh Lisa, thank you. This was awesome. I appreciate you. Thank, thanks for your time. Absolutely. Thank you so much.

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Hey there, painting company owners. If you enjoyed today’s episode, make sure you go ahead and hit that subscribe button. Give us your feedback. Let us know how we did.v And also if you’re interested in taking your painting business to the next level, make sure you visit the Painter Marketing Pros website at PainterMarketingPros.com to learn more about our services. You can also reach out to me directly by emailing me at Brandon@PainterMarketingPros.com and I can give you personalized advice on growing your painting business. Until next time, keep growing.