Welcome to the Painter Marketing Mastermind Podcast, the show created to help painting company owners build a thriving painting business that does well over 103 million in annual revenue. I’m your host, Brandon Pierpont, founder of Painter Marketing Pros and creator of the popular PCA Educational Series to grow marketing for painters. In each episode, I’ll be sharing proven tips, strategies and processes from leading experts in the industry on how they found success in their painting business. We will be interviewing owners of the most successful painting companies in North America and learning from their experiences.

In this series titled “3rd Generation Painter, 1st Generation Mindset”, Joshua Joosten & Cody Roberts of Sequoia Painting will be sharing their story on building a near $2m residential and commercial painting company based in Tulare County, CA. They will be detailing the changes that Sequoia Painting has undergone from starting as a post-retirement hobby for Joshua to a profitable and growing enterprise with a very unique approach to the painting industry.

In this episode, Episode 1, Joshua & Cody will discuss the origins of Sequoia Painting from the perspective of a 3rd generation painter, and the transition that needed to happen to create true business intrinsic value.

If you want to ask Joshua and Cody questions related to anything in this podcast series, you can do so in our exclusive Painter Marketing Mastermind Podcast Forum on Facebook. Just search for “Painter Marketing Mastermind Podcast Forum” on Facebook and request to join the group, or type in the URL Facebook.com/groups/PainterMarketingMastermind. There you can ask them questions directly by tagging her with your question, so you can see how anything discussed here applies to your particular painting company.

What’s going on guys? What’s going on, Brandon? How you doing? How you doing? Good, man. I’m excited for this, uh, excited for this series. Josh, thanks for letting me twist your arm and uh and uh and do it and for bringing Cody in into this whole thing. Oh, you’re welcome. No problem at all, man. My pleasure. So, let’s, uh, maybe you guys can just start by telling us a little bit about Sequoia painting, um, where are you at, who you serve, generally your size, uh, just so we can get our bearings here.

Go ahead, Cody. So we’re, we’re located in the basically the heart of California right in the middle of what is deemed the Central Valley, um, our service area, um, we really stick within about a 50 to 60 mile radius which encompasses a half a dozen counties or so, um. What was the other question? Kind of a big radius. Well, you know, part of this area, although we have decent sized cities, there’s a lot of rural areas in between, you know, so, um. To get to the next. City that’s bigger than us would be Fresno, California, about 30 miles or so north of us.

So then to get all of that Fresno, uh, city of, uh, we really got to stretch about that 50 to 60, otherwise we’d be cutting part of that that pool off. So, um, out of necessity, I guess, you know, I’m sure if it was broken down by a population. Uh, standpoint, it would probably be comparable to anybody that’s in your heavier populated, more metropolitan type areas, you know. Got it. OK, and then just to set the kind of framework for our listeners, so you guys are co-owners of the business, and then Joshua, your wife is also a co-owner, and then Cody and Joshua, you are cousins.

That’s correct. And Joshua, you started the business in what year? Uh, we started in 303. OK. And then Cody, you, you joined a year later, half a year later, correct, correct. Uh, May, uh, right around May of 21, got it. We started January, actual business launched January of 2020 is when I actually got my California state license number and Started Then So let’s get into the the origins then of Sequoia painting, Josh. What, what were you doing prior to launching the company? It’s not that old of a company, you know, I’ve been around for 4 to 5 years.

What were you doing prior to launching it and then what prompted you to launch it? Like you’re saying, Brandon, uh, I am a 3rd generation, uh, painter, um. Started out with my father back in the mid-nineties, um and Worked with him for a handful of years. Uh, he taught me a lot, taught me how to, you know, estimate, uh, the old school way, obviously, um, taught me a lot about painting, um. Kind of got um a little irritated working, you know, with him. He’s, he’s kind of one of those old school hard painters to, to work with and, uh, in, in uh 2001, I decided to become a correctional officer here at California State Prisons, uh, worked, um, from, from 2001 to 2019 at Corcoran State Prison.

Uh, Josh, I, I just want to stop you for a second. So your, your father was an old school stubborn, hard-nosed painter. I don’t think any of us have ever met someone like that. So you felt that rather than work with him, it would be easier and less cumbersome to go work with the, the most dangerous criminals. I think you’re gonna love. That would be easier than working with with this painter. Old school. Of course you know you’re 21 years old, you think you know it all, right?

So when you put in that aspect, yes, you’re murderers and rapists and everything, nothing, working with a stubborn painter. Oh my goodness. That’s a good way to put it. Never thought of it that way, but that is an awesome way that perspective there, yeah, you know, and, and to be honest with you, I, I look back now as, uh, you know, 303 year old kid and, and what was I even had any business walking through, you know, general population mainline yard at 21 years old where you do have.

You know, gang members, mafia members, you know, um, the worst of the worst of California, you know. Um, So did that for, like I said, uh, till 2019, uh retired. Uh, saw a lot of things, uh, go down in that prison system, uh, kind of changed my whole demeanor in life, you know, it. It, it, it, I’m trying to uh rechange and, and get back to being a human, um, you know, because the things that I had seen and Uh, in, in the 19 years I was there, you know, he never put enough words with the, uh, amount of stuff that I’d seen, you know.

Um, From People get murdered to riots, to people hanging themselves, overdose on drugs, um, you know, I, I’ve seen a lot of things. So anyways, uh, retired from there 2019 and Uh, still young, you know, um. The good thing about law enforcement is you do get you do get to retire at a young age, um, so me and, uh, one of my partners from the prison, we were both painters by trade, uh decided for me to go get my license, uh or actually I should say transfer my license because I’ve been on my dad’s license since 97, 96.

Um, and then him and I were just going to, uh, paying a couple of houses a month, you know, just to kind of keep us busy. We didn’t want to sit around and And and die, you know, so we thought we would paint a couple of houses a month and That was it and didn’t know that, uh, as, you know, as you’re in the marketing business and, and being back in the day when you put yourself in the yellow pages, it’s nothing compared to today’s world of marketing, you know, you put yourself on Google and Boy, that phone’s gonna ring, you know, and, and it did.

It rang and it started to get to a point where I had to pull myself out immediately and start like, you know, doing the estimating. Uh, my friend Mike that joined me, you know, he was out there kind of running the jobs and About 4 or 5 months into it, he’s like, hey, I did not sign up for this to work 40 hours a week every week, you know, I thought we were just gonna do this for kind of fun for some extra money and So He, uh, so he kind of left and, and I, it’s just the snowball kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger and And um in 303, um, I mean not now at this point I’m Thinking, OK, now this is actually turning into a business like what the heck’s going on, you know, and perspective he’s, he’s in his garage, right, the humble beginnings of this, it’s in the garage.

It’s, it’s a hobby, you know, I mean, official, officially licensed and all that kind of stuff, but just, uh, hey, let’s keep busy kind of. Vision, you know, initially, right? Working out of the garage and having, you know, a home office and, you know, one of the bedrooms we turn into an office and Started just growing and growing and now by this time I got a ton of equipment in my 3 car garage and we actually, you know, um, started, you know, having paint and stuff in there and my wife is like, yeah, I don’t think so.

That ain’t happening, you know, you need to go get an office and a shop now, we’re not gonna flood our garage with everything and Uh, I, I’m not gonna lie, I was so scared to even think about, you know, getting a shop in an office and having some kind of monthly obligations, you know, and again, never thought I was gonna turn this into an actual business and Um, ended up getting our first office and shop and And uh That was I think in um January of 2020. I wanna say by probably July or August.

Uh, got our first off our shopping office of that first year. Um, and then Snowball was still going and I was getting to a point where I was getting really stressed out and And I mean, Things were going getting crazy and. Didn’t have no, you know, policies or anything in line and it’s just kind of just doing it and and uh. One of my mentors that I have that has a very large company here in our area, uh, in the tile industry, kind of woke me up a little bit and, and because I would be calling him 5678 times a day, like, how do you handle this?

How do you handle that, you know, and. His family and company has been around for, you know, 50+ years. So they’ve been there, done there, that, that kind of stuff. And finally one day he’s like, Josh, you just came from the biggest entity in California, the state prison system where they probably have Every policy, procedure, what time you use the restrooms, what time you have your lunch, everything is broken down, and he goes, why don’t you just adapt? Policies and procedures and turn them into the painting world.

You know, and when he did that, it’s like shoot, so I ended up spending a handful of months just creating SOPs and And policies and procedures and disciplinary, um, you know, procedures and Uh, 2021, uh, may have. 2021, I believe it was, uh, Cody, um, kind of seen an opportunity, um, where the painting company was going and And I asked him if he would be interested in joining it, you know, and Again, at that point I just thought we’re just gonna keep it kind of. Medium type, you know, just kind of not some crazy business, you know, and he gets in here and Want to start doing a lot of changes and Helping me out with the policies and procedures, and he’s been in the construction, you know, himself for What 20 years or so, 1820 years and adapting things from company he worked for, even though it was a different industry, you know, you still, the business aspect of things, you run it the same way, you know, no matter what industry you’re in.

Um, so he started doing some changing and, and, uh, started doing a thing called measuring uh job sites, you know, and measuring the projects, you know, going on an exterior with that measuring wheel and taking measurements where I would just kind of, as Slavic says put your finger in the air and uh this job will do 30 gallons, you know, and so he started changing that and creating production rates and labor rates and all these different things and. Um, yeah, and then from there it just kept growing.

Cody created a pure chaos with all his measurements and systems and And standardization. Yeah, I’ll tell you what, Brandon, you know what, when, when you got a person that grew up with the old school painting mentality where you just kind of guesstimate a project, it was, it was very foreign to me because I, uh, you, you know, come to me and say, hey, we’re gonna start measuring everything and I’m gonna break down how long it takes, you know, how many square footage a person can pressure wash an hour and.

You know, and all these kind of things, and it took me a couple of months to to to be able to to understand it, like I was totally foreign to me. Um, finally, you know, pushing forward a few years later, I, I kind of understand it. Now, now he’s changing it to a different level now. I mean, he’s breaking things down to where How much And you could probably what you yesterday you were talking to me about prepping, like you’re trying to break it down is how much prep is actually in a project versus painting, you know, and what you’re kind of at that 1003% prepping and.

30% painting, you know, so he’s kind of gone to that mode now, so he’s changing some things up and I, I, I sure hope it don’t get more difficult for me for sure. ever evolving, ever evolving. Yeah, I love it, ever improving. So the, man, that’s quite the journey, Josh. So you, you joined, I mean, you started this thing as basically a hobby, so you don’t, weren’t too bored. And then it kind of started running away from you cause a lot of people were calling and wanted the business and things were going well, even though you didn’t intend for them to go that well, to the point that your previous business partner or co-hobbyist.

Um, was less interested in where this was going. You had to go find an office. What kicked you out of the house, too many things, uh, were stored there. And then Cody, you, you, you coming from the construction industry, we’re seeing the potential here, uh, and able to come in and bring your know-how, um, to really start helping Josh with the systems and, and kind of align with him on building those SOPs and processes and measurements and start actually getting this thing really dialed in. That’s a pretty good summary of that, yeah, you bet.

Um, when, uh, when Joshua, you know, contacted me about uh the potential for an opportunity, um, the things I noticed. Uh, I was impressed. First of all, you know, the first, uh, couple of days I rode around with him just in what he had already accomplished on, um, On his own regard and, and kids, right, for lack of better explanation, um, office staff was a daughter of his and one of her um school friends that were not, she is a little, she’s not the normal um uh kid her age.

She was definitely wise beyond her years and was a huge Uh, a huge piece of, you know, professionalizing the office of, of Sequoia Painting. So, um, I was impressed with, uh, a lot of what had already taken place, um, the brand that you see, the brush, you know, a lot of people don’t notice right away that’s the Sequoia tree line and the, the paint on the brush. Um, you know, the thing that sequoia trees are right here in our backyard, you know, what a great brand or name to adopt.

You know, people come from all over the world to see the trees that we have, you know, no more than 50 miles away from us. So, um, uh, I, I was impressed, you know, with the things that I had saw initially, you know, and, um, When I made the the jump to join, you know, I was in full training mode under Joshua’s wing, you know, uh. Learning what work is worth, you know, and then me being, uh, a very analytical mind, you know, coming from the grading and paving industry where numbers are what they are, and you hit those numbers or it’s wrong and the company doesn’t get paid, period.

That’s all there is to it, you know, I’ve long said numbers don’t lie, people do, so. When I was trained under his wing, how to evaluate these jobs, let’s come up with, um, you know, he’s teaching me how he’s priced this work to date. Um, my mind needed a tangible way to associate that cost to what I was looking at. So I just reverted back to what I knew, what I had learned in my years in either grading and paving or doing underground plumbing or whatever it was.

Um, numbers were insanely important, and you had to hit them or it wasn’t right and the company didn’t get paid for it. So, um, implemented my knowledge from reading blueprints and All those types of avenues into breaking down, even if it’s an average residential, uh, repaint, uh 1600 to 800 square foot home. I mean, we may very well know, uh, what that job is going to cost and the time it’s going to take to do it, but if it’s not on paper and there’s not something that represents it, I’ll make the argument it doesn’t exist.

So, um, Started really building all that, you know, and also with the, um, we have several conversations about it’s, I’m able to pick up what he is teaching me and how we evaluated these jobs, what they’re worth, right? Um, but it has to be teachable, you know, and that’s, we always rely on gut instinct, having a great gut is, is ever important, especially. As a business owner or an authority figure in a business, you know, having a good gut to, to lean on is, is immeasurable, but being able to measure and know that, hey, this is what it is and we’re gonna be great if we go with that.

Um, that’s like your sense of security as you begin to, um, train other people in, in these, in these jobs to be able to scale and grow, you know. Yeah, I think that point about it being teachable is so critical. I think it’s, it’s often overlooked 10% because we think like, well, well, you want to measure it so that you, you actually get it right, right, because it’s, it’s definitely no matter how many years you’ve been doing it, it’s gonna be more specific. You’ll be able to job costs and ensure you get the appropriate profit margin and All that, but there’s also no real way to scale if you’re just relying on the know-how or the or the gut or the experience of one or a select group of people.

You have to be able to pass that knowledge on to other people. 100%. And I said, I, I will never a good gut. We still play the game in here all the time, Brandon, we’ll put a job together and I’ll give him some raw facts about it that he would use for a gut price. And the gut price that he, uh, shoots out is usually within 3 to 5%, you know what I mean, of what that end of the road number is. So, uh, having a good gut is immeasurable, you know, it’s, it’s great to have, but like you piggyback the to be teachable, uh, to, to others, you know, you got to have those, you gotta have a process that is reliable, you know. Sure.

So it sounds like when you guys transitioned from from the the method that you were using to previously price the projects to then taking the measurements and doing it differently, those prices were very similar. Maybe sometimes it would end up being a little higher, sometimes it would be lower, but there wasn’t, it wasn’t like, oh, our prices all of a sudden increased. No, because you got to imagine or, you know, the understanding is Joshua taught me, right? Like I shadowed him for several weeks to month or I don’t remember the exact time frame, but I was, we were a tandem, you know, so everything that I dissected with measurements, it was still based off of how his end of the road numbers were, you know, and then through Um, hopefully I’m not jumping episodes here, but then when you validate it with job costing, then, then you really know, you know what I mean?

So the, he had the template, you know, he had the, the template for what he was comfortable pricing the way he priced it. We didn’t know I had it. Yeah, we, we just, you know, developed a way to make it reliable and make it teachable. The what are you guys, do you have a specific target for profit margin? Absolutely, um, I would love, I mean, the, the, the goal is to be no less than 35% on that gross profit, you know, if we can make it out of a project, all said and done, and we’re 1003.

I’m, I’m, I’m never going to be upset about that. 40%, 50% is awesome. We get those occasionally, right? Um, efficient crew or it was a high-risk job. Therefore, it should be a little higher reward in my book, the way my brain, you know, looks at that kind of thing. So, um, the end of the road, you know, like what it is translated in our sales team, you know, the When you’re dissecting your numbers and it’s a job you really want to get, 35 is kind of your bottom number, you know, and if that’s still out of the reach for the customer, you know, you did everything as as a company, as a brand, was able to to be economical for them, um, but that’s kind of our, that’s kind of our end of the road.

That’s our, that’s our, our bottom go stop. Do you guys use subcontractors or W-24 employees? All W26. Yeah, you have to, right? In California? Yeah, I, I give it to you guys even having a business in California, I think it, it be challenging you get the feeling often California really doesn’t want you to operate, you know, it’s kind of funny because sometimes when I come back from these conferences and stuff and I’ll be like such and such over there and you know, doing, they’re doing this or something, you know, and, and Cody comes in.

Yeah, let’s see if that will work in California though, you know, cost of business is a little bit more different in California than it is in a lot of different parts of the country, you know. Yeah, California loves its small business owners for sure. They they love for us to fund the state for that part. Yeah. So let’s, let’s talk about one of the things we’re all talking about before we started filming here was. On how Josh, Joshua, your father had a painting company, your grandfather had a painting company, and, and one of the things you’ve been focused on doing now with Cody is, is really building in Some more, I’d say intrinsic business value.

So, so value to the business where it wouldn’t necessarily rely as much on you, could be a transferable asset. How have you guys been been focused on building that value? that. You know, I mean, I, I have no problem talking about it, um. That through and it, I don’t want it to sound wrong, but, you know, the To make sure that if Joshua or myself disappears, Sequoia doesn’t notice it. I mean, of course they’re gonna, you know, the company would notice if that were to happen truck, right?

But yeah, but the uh the to accomplish that is just. Getting the right individuals, you know, first and foremost quality human beings, um. I, I’m overly thrilled about everybody that Sequoia has on payroll right now, and that hasn’t always been the case, Brandon, you know, it’s, um, and I think any business owner, especially in this industry, would be lying through their teeth if they said they’ve always had, you know, or, or I would just be extremely envious of that individual because that’s, it’s tough, you know, um.

But quality individuals and then, um, truly the big thing, and you’ll probably hear me say this multiple times throughout this journey with you is it’s not on paper, it doesn’t exist. Um, Unwritten expectations are They’re gonna disappear, you know, so job descriptions for your professional lead of admin, you know, job descriptions for your color consultant, job descriptions for your sales team, that’s your, that’s your integral part, right? That’s, that’s the, that’s the behind the scenes, you know, you get all that, you get quality human beings in those roles.

um, now it’s time to Do the same thing in the field, you know, now we need those quality foremen. We need those quality painters, uh, whether they’re apprentices that aspire to be a journeyman level or they’re uh journeyman painters that have been doing it for, you know, a couple of decades already, um. Finding the right fit, you know, you gotta find the fit that um Keeps things moving as smoothly as they can, you know, I think that’s the, the, the key to the creating value to that doesn’t rely on the sole proprietor that doesn’t rely on the ownership is ownership not having to be um The backbone, for lack of better terms, you know, owner will always be, of course, because we bear the weight of the company.

It’s, it’s, it’s our baby, you know, we’re gonna always strive to see it succeed, but The influence isn’t a necessity for day to day operations, so to say. So I think a lot of training is a must, you know, we do in, you know, going back to like I was saying, uh, my mentor telling me, coming from the biggest entity of California, training is a huge thing in the Department of Corrections, huge thing, right? And so in the beginning stages, I was just doing annually training and I started to notice that.

You know, month 230 month 230, that they were starting to like get a little slack on some of the things and policies that we have in place and So going back to again, the, the whole, you know, working at the prison and looking at our trainings and so I decided we decided to do quarterly training, you know, so once a quarter, we bring everybody in here and we go over, takes us probably what, about 230 hours or so, and yeah, we, we make a day out of it and we go over everything from.

How to talk to the customer, what to say to the customer when you’re, you know, starting that job startup to closing a job out, you know, and everything in between, uh, how to, to paint the exterior of the house, how to paint the interior, how to do the cabinets, um, you know, because we want everything, you know, we wanna basically when we go on a job site. They could be at different stages, but they’re all going to be running the same way on every single job, you know, because of our training.

Yes, when you initially said training, I was thinking of initial training. So when someone joins, kind of train them up, but you’re referring to it more in the sense of reminders, because you see that if you don’t do it regularly, people will start to drift and get lazy and maybe start to do their own thing. Yeah, it could be a simple thing as is. You know, they’re not putting a yard sign out, you know, we, we have a policy in place for that, you know, you’re putting 2100 yard signs out for the, you know, the front of the house, at the entrance of the neighborhood and the exit of the neighborhood, you know, uh, passing out, uh, door hangers, you know, and, and it could be as simple as them not putting it, uh, um, a yard sign out, you know, and, and, but to us, that’s a big thing, you know.

Um, and so when you do it quarterly, it’s constantly reminding them this is the policy, this is the procedure, the expectation expectation, yeah, you know, and. And when we went to that quarterly training, it is like everything everything started to click in with everybody and You know, we’ve, we’ve, with that we’ve gotten less callbacks, we’ve, we’ve Get less calls, you know, um, consistent product too, you know, you’re as a brand, um. In our area we’re we’re never the most economical. I don’t like using the word cheapest, so I try not to say that too much, but we’re, we’re never the most economical, you know, and we’re OK with that because we know the value in the company and what we offer and what contracting sequoia painting includes, um.

So making sure that everybody involved that’s part of that spoked wheel is all carrying their equal weight to keep it, keep it turning smooth, so we can continue on being, uh, as, as presented, you know what I mean? If, um, if the professionalism starts at the phone call or the ad that brings the phone call in, uh, somebody answers the phone. And they’re pleasant and they book an appointment for an on-site estimate, and that estimator shows up on time and composes a professional estimate and it’s extremely informative and this customer is blown away and signs on the dotted line and then we show up for the work and the van pulls up and.

It’s filthy. They opened the door and trash has fallen out of it and the guy’s shirt, you know, uniform looks like it should have been retired 73 months ago, you know, like the ball got dropped. That spoke was now a weak point in the wheel and we got a bump every time we spin around, you know, so. The training really helped us. We, we, we really saw a, a sharp decrease in those things that we did not like, you know, and visiting job sites and, uh, customer reviews or customer phone calls about, hey, well, I just noticed this.

It’s not a big deal, right? That’s how it always, that’s how the conversation starts off. It’s not. big deal, but, you know, like one star scathing review. Yeah, you know, it is a big deal if you took time out of your day to call me and talk to me about it, you know, so, um, but yeah, like Joshua said, the, the training and uh just the the reminder of the expectation, you know, for Um, guys in the field don’t see it as much that, I mean, the office staff has the same kind of standard, you know, it’s, it’s an expectation.

We all, we all wear this brand that’s on my shirt, you know, and everybody should be proud to represent that and know what it means to be a part of it. Yeah. So the you guys doing that regular training with the whole team to ensure, uh, to ensure that the ball’s not. I like how you’re viewing it as a wheel with spokes and kind of everything needs to be consistent. if we’re marketing a quality company, then we need to answer the phone as a quality company, we need to sell as a quality company and then we need to show up and perform as a quality company.

27, do you guys, what does your process look like for initial training, so a new employee joins, what happens? So when we find somebody that we think is gonna be a great fit. We, of course, you always, you know, the, the verbal questions about experience, um, we’re always, we’re always a uh a 26 day probation period, whether you’re applying to be a foreman, whether you’re applying to be a painter, uh, whether you’re an apprentice that knows nothing, um. We have steered away from the, the knowing absolutely nothing is a little bit, um, not completely, because those quality individuals are still out there.

We have one young man that just made it through his 2100 day probation, uh, 4 or 5 weeks ago, and I’m so glad that we decided to, um, invest in him because he’s as good as they come, you know. So when they come in, it’s always in it’s always an agreement and uh I don’t, I hate to use the word angle, but the perspective is, um, because you get a lot of different looks, especially people in the painting industry, you know, painters by trade, they’re used to, they get hired and either they’re getting paid cash under the table or they’re considered full-time payroll, you know, straight out the gate, so.

We let it known that this is a 90 day probation period because we have to make sure you like working here as much as we like you being here. This is a two-way road, right? The, the slogan is creating happiness. That’s not just for the customers, that’s for the, it’s for the people that the brand employs also, so. You may not like the structure, you know, or you may not operate with the same kind of mindset. That’s fine, you know, that, that, that’s OK, but we’re going to keep this a probationary period.

So we know for sure that it’s a great fit on both sides, you know, um. We have a couple foremen in the field that are typically are go to our go to tradesmen to pair a new guy with, um. And we that’s on the job and that’s on the job training, right? So then we get a uh real-time evaluation from people we trust with the name of our company, right? They’re foreman for Sequoia painting that don’t have anybody looking over them on a day to day basis, um, to give us an evaluation of where they’re at and it’s not just the skill level, right?

You know, where they’re at skill level wise, um. Attitude, demeanor, how do they show up every day? They show up on time? Are they happy? Is there always something going on that they’re griping about, you know, like all these things are important to us because um We’re big on that positive mindset, you know, I, I, I’ll say it several times, with the right mindset, there’s nothing impossible, you know, uh, human beings are pretty impressive in that standpoint and in my opinion that, you know, you get yourself in the right headspace, um, there shouldn’t be anything that holds you back.

So, um, we get their honest feedback and typically we would try to keep them. With the foreman for about a two-week duration, so a couple of weeks with this foreman, we’ll switch them a couple of weeks with another foreman, switch them a couple of weeks with another foreman, and try to get it to where, uh, by the time we’re getting close to the end of that, you know, probation period, um, we have a real strong idea as if they’re a good fit or not. And the 90 day probation isn’t a set in stone timeline.

We’ve had individuals that after 3 weeks are like, oh man, this Carlos is it, you know, like we, we, we like this guy. We like everything he’s about. We’ll pull him into the office and say, hey, man, I know you’re still on probationary period, but if you like being here as much as we like you being here, we’d like to make it official and, and, and have you in your full-time position. Um, so it doesn’t have to run that 90 days, you know, it does, you know, and especially with the guys that maybe are, um, of lesser experience just so we can make sure they’re going to progress, you know, at, at our expectation.

But, um, it doesn’t have to run that 63-day duration. If we know we’ve really attracted a quality human being that we don’t want to let go somewhere else. So with with this. Focus on quality that you guys have uh of your hires, but then also your process, your consistency. And just this general concept of taking a business that was really designed to be a hobby or just kind of more of a lifestyle business, not, not really anything too serious, and really systematizing it and positioning it for scale, and you guys are at almost $2 million in annual revenue.

I’m gonna ask you a little bit of a trick question. I don’t know what the answer is. I, I ask myself it all the time and I ask a lot of people, do you think systems or people? is more important at at this level. Oh, that is such a trick question. It’s such a trick question. chicken and the egg kind of quite um. Holy cow. I think systems are ever important. Um, I think systems are ever important and I think with the right systems, the quality people will come.

Um, something I wish we would have done a better job at adopting earlier on that I learned thanks to uh mentors through the PCA is I slow fire fast, uh, guilty of not firing fast, man, when you know with those anchors, yeah, when you know there’s an anchor and you’re just, you know. Keeping them out there for the path of less friction because it’s somebody there, you know, it’s a, it’s an extra set of hands. It’s whatever the justification is that we will all do time to time, um.

Hiring slow and firing faster would have helped us earlier. Um, I guess if I was gonna put what’s more important, I, I would probably say the systems, man, because with the, with the right system. You hope to get the quality human beings eventually, you know, I’m not saying it’s not gonna take time or you may cycle through 20 to get one, you know, um. But I think the system, I think the system’s very important. I, I agree. I think the systems are great because you’re setting a foundation and, and the expectation for the people.

You know, these are our rules, these are our guidelines. If you don’t obey with them, you’re gonna get, you know, it’s not for you, it’s not for you, you know, and, uh, a simple thing as an employee handbook, you know, that, that, that right there alone when we, when we push out an employee handbook, you know, in the beginning stages of it. We see a big difference just with that, you know, because now, These are your our expectations. This is how you call out sick. If you’re going to call out sick, you need to let us know 2 hours prior to your start of shift.

If you’re not going to do that, you are going to get a write up. Requested, you know, requested time off, um, putting a, putting a slip in for, for, you know, requesting a day off, you know, and, and I think that policy is what, 4 weeks, I think we, we like to have an advance somewhere in there. You’re going to have a day off, you know, and. You’re taking your, you know, family on vacation or something, you know, let us know, hey, I’m going to take this week off and give us adequate time so we can adjust the scheduling and adjust the staffing package with that, you know, but yeah, I, I agree with that.

I, I, I think that one was one of the big things that, um, turned into an early precursor for us as to what type of human being we were bringing on, you know, cause, um, The reaction to the employee handbook would, would tell us a lot, you know, um, you give somebody an employee handbook and they don’t ever even open it. Well, I mean, that kind of shows you not a ton of interest, you know, to the brand and what the brand’s expectation is, you know. Now, somebody that goes through it and fully understands it and you’re, you’re getting time off request slips from them 6 months in advance because they got a family vacation planned and they want to make sure they get the time and Um, it was huge.

I mean, I think the employee handbook was one of the biggest things, you know, that, um, and a little bit of a precursor, you know, to is this person going to be a good fit or not. Yeah. And I love the setting of expectations too, you know, they, they can actually see whether or not it’s a fit and, and I think it kind of everything’s super above board. The So you guys have talked about people, um, having the right people, we’ve talked about teachable systems. I think that were teachable being super super important there, regular training.

What other, what other changes you guys feel is necessary to take a business from maybe being more of a hobby to something that really has intrinsic value where, where Joshua or any owner would have the ability to step back? Are there, are there other things that we haven’t discussed? I think, I think personally and, you know, Cody will probably piggyback on this, but the placement. Oh, People, you know, making sure you’re putting the right person in the right place, you know, just because we got a commercial project that the superintendent needs us there yesterday and we’re gonna throw somebody there just to fill that spot or that body, you know, and setting him up for failure, you know, setting the right people in the right positions, and I feel that’s why.

Um, Today I am where I’m at with the company as far as like, I mean, I’m not trying to toot my own horn or anything by all means, but I could tell Cody I’m gone. I’ll be back in a month and I know this company will run exactly and be the same exact way when I left it and coming back 30 days later, um, you know, and why that happened is because Cody and I. First with our personnel, we placed everybody in the right positions that they’re a fit for it, you know, I’m not gonna try to set a brand new, you know, painter and try to get him to run a job and be a foreman or a project manager, you know, as a, um, because he’s gonna, we’re, we’re setting him up for failure, you know, and.

And sometimes it’s funny because when we see that you, you know, you always think, you know, you’re a journeyman level painter. Doesn’t mean you’re going to be a great fit for us for a supervisor. You know, I, I, I could care less that you have 30 years in the industry. Do you have 30 years supervising individuals because that, you know, so I would say placement of of your personnel would be a huge thing with that. The right people in the right seats, and that example right there is a really good one where you’ll have someone who’s really talented in a specific function and they moved up in that function and then you put them in charge of a department.

Of other people who perform that function and it doesn’t always go, I, I would dare say a lot of times it doesn’t go very well. So it goes back to even like I said our our our field painters, you know, uh, putting them in the right positions on the jobs. You know, if we’ve got someone that’s not qualified, you know, because you do have different qualifications, you know, if we put somebody that’s not really familiarized on, on painting cabinets or, you know, polishing out a floor, you know, because we do epoxies as well, um, why would we want to set them there and set them up for failure, you know.

So, again, I think placement is with personality is, is, is a huge part of. And 100% of making the culture fit, you know, at work. I think any, any business owner that may be where Joshua was at. A few years ago, um, You really can’t be afraid to to invest in the company with quality individuals, right? Anytime you take on payroll, it’s nerve-wracking from an ownership standpoint, right? You’re taking that burden that you are expected to pro to provide, right? Like this company has to be healthy enough to provide these people that are expecting their.

You know, their, their skills is compensated by their pay, you know, um, having some, having quality and qualified, um. Admin professionals is not inexpensive. Inexpensive admin is not gonna do you any favors, you know, so I think. Joshua being he’s a little bit of a risk taker, right? Like he won’t mind me saying that because he’s OK with saying. Let’s, let’s do it. What’s the worst that’s gonna happen? We’re gonna have to get back up off the ground, you know what I mean? Um, so not being afraid to keep the faith in your company and and invest in.

Bringing the people in that allow that freedom, you know what I mean? That’s, that’s, that’s a big, a big part of it. I agree with that too, because, you know, for somebody that’s starting out a company or anything, you know, starting out a painting company, you’re gonna have to take risks. And I know every, every time you do something new to the company, that risk, it’s, it’s an air gut feeling. You, you, I, I, Cody and I both, you know, we’ll get bubble guts and stuff when it comes to making the.

Those decisions, you know, and that’s taking it back to when I even, you know, started the company and only wanted it to do as a hobby and buying our first van, that was a used van, you know, it was like, oh my God, I’m gonna do this and how is this company gonna go to finding this office and shop? Like, how in the heck am I gonna afford to pay the monthly payments on this, you know, and the monthly rent on it, you know? And so risk risk, risk taking is a huge thing, you know, when you’re in.

Being, you can calculate it as best you can, and at the end of the day, you still got to step off the edge, you know, you still, you still got to go for it and just and have some faith, you’re gonna land on your feet because you’ve done everything leading up to it to get the outcome you’re looking for. 100%. Entrepreneurship it necessarily entails risk. And then the one other thing I want to add to back to the trick question that I posed with the systems versus personnel.

So when you, you guys both focus on the systems, I would tend to agree with that. I’m still, I think it can go, can go either way. I agree too because you could get the people and then the people could make the system, right? That’s the other really good and then they make a system that’s better than you made, um, but if you don’t have the system, the structure, then good people won’t want to be there, so it can go either way. But the, uh, I think one thing noting, uh, important to note is that when you create the system, so the systems at least for things that, that should be, how do you pick up the phone?

What do you say when you answer the phone? How do you park your, you know, your vehicle when you arrive at a, a homeowner, you know, at a house, like certain things that are easy to write down, create an SOP, things like that on it. The more you can put that down on paper, the more you can, you can settle that and make it easy, you can almost Up, upscale, up level, what you’re looking for in your personnel, because for example, if you had not a good organizational system, and you were wanting to hire an admin, then you’d probably need someone who is really organized.

That would be, that would be a really important element. But let’s say you actually had that really dialed in already. You, it was all super organized. Well then you’d probably be focused on someone who really makes the caller feel special. And so now you’re up on like this next level skill set where it’s not like, hey, can you just make sure things, the wheels stay on the bus because you’ve already screwed them on tight, the wheels are not gonna come off. Now we can look real talent in like personnel relationships, things like that because the fundamentals are already secured through the systems. Yeah.

And, and don’t get us wrong, I mean the the personnel. I mean, as you grow, the personnel can create systems as well. I mean, you’re never done creating systems. I, I don’t care how big of a company you are my mentors have a system for systems, a system for. That’s right, exactly. You know, so there’s sometimes where your personnel is gonna have a great idea and next thing you know you’re establishing a new system, you know. Uh, for that, and that’s kind of what we like to do too is try to get everybody to take ownership in this company, you know, and, and.

It’s to us, it’s not mine and Cody’s company, you know, it’s our company as a team here and it’s a brand. I work for Sequoia Painting. I, I say that all the time, you know, it’s a brand I wear. I’m obviously a little biased being in ownership, but I, I work for Sequoia Painting. My, I strive to make the brand what I expect it to be, you know, and, and I think. Being open about that is huge with who we employ, you know, like it’s not Cody and Joshua sitting back, not doing anything and just watching these checks come through the door.

Common misconception, typically, you know. Um, no, I, I, I have a strong obligation to feed this baby, you know, to watch this thing grow, to continue to put the things in front of it that it needs for the next step, for the next step. I told you a little bit in our pre-meeting. I’m, I’m never satisfied. It’s not a blessing. It’s a curse. Um, most things are, it’s never good enough. I can hit a beautiful 7 iron to 6 ft from the pin and well, it could have been a little bit closer.

Everybody else is losing their mind. Wow, what a shot. Now, it could have been better, you know, like. It, it’s just my mindset. I mean, not to confuse that with I don’t ever get excited or appreciative of things because I have a ton of appreciation and I try to share that across everybody that is part of this brand constantly. Appreciate you here, appreciate you. Thank you for what you do, um, and I think that’s huge for ownership, um. Letting your people know how important they are. They are sequoia painting as much as we are, you know what I mean?

It’s, it’s, it’s ever important. Um, most people are not fond of dictators, right? We live in a free country, so, um, business owners that think or that have the mindset that it’s my way or the highway. There are profitable businesses that operate that way, but let’s interview their, let’s interview their staff and let’s see how they, how happy are they to be there? Are they there because they have financial obligations to pay their bills and support a family, or are they there because, man, they really like the company, they like what it represents, they like their, their higher powers, you know what I mean?

Um. I think it’s huge, you know, letting people know how important every, like I said, the spoke in the wheel, it takes every single spoke in that wheel to make the wheel roll smooth. There’s one weak spoke, there’s one missing spoke. You feel that bump every time that wheel turns around, you know. So there’s nobody that’s more important per se than the other when you look at it in that perspective, um, from the new guy learning that spends most of his time. Uh, laying out drop claws and ripping and wadding up masking paper, that spoke is extremely important.

When that spoke’s not there, there’s a bump when the wheel turns around, you know what I mean? So that’s just uh. Something I always appreciated as being an employee, you know, was knowing that what I did had a true purpose, no matter what the task was, you know, and I think that always empowered me to do the absolute best I could at whatever I was doing, whether it was shoveling asphalt all day to pave a road or, you know, building a new subdivision, whatever it was, you know, like.

That’s my task. I’m gonna do it to the best of my ability because I know I’m appreciated and I know it matters, you know. You know, I want to piggyback on that a little bit too, you know, it, it, a lot of times, you know, just giving somebody a without a boy, you know, um. They did a good job, goes a long ways, you know, you don’t always got to be dashing out, you know, money and bonuses and, and all these different gifts and stuff, you know, just telling somebody, you know, when they, when they have a win or even if they don’t have a win, you know, you did your best and, you know, and applaud them for that, you know, it’s Yeah, a little bit of words can go a long way when it comes to stuff like that. 100%.

Unification, man, there’s always been a, uh, it doesn’t matter the form of construction, there’s a big disconnect between office and field, always, right? It doesn’t matter where I’ve been, there was always that disconnect. I was always in the field. So I have that perspective, you know, of that disconnect, and that’s been something I have really strived for, uh, since being here with Joshua is. Uh having that same team mentality and like making sure that that’s known, you know, it’s super high on my priority list, and I think it, I think it plays a lot into what has led to our success and our growing success, you know, is.

It’s the same team and everybody’s important, and there’s no such thing as I’m too good to do that task, you know, like it’s, it is what it is. If I visit a job site and there’s wadded up masking paper that somebody’s working their way back picking up, I’ll pick it up and carry it to their trash bin with them too. There’s no, there’s no holier than thou allowed at this company. That’s not how we operate, you know. Man, I am, uh, I am pumped up for this, for this podcast series.

I appreciate you guys. Um, we’re already diving into so many things. I feel like there have been so many, um, I don’t know, like previews, I can of the future episodes of stuff you guys have said that I’m like, oh my gosh, I’m, I’m gonna really dive into that. Yeah, as we, as we wrap up this first episode, is there anything you guys want to add? You know, uh, just to thank you, Brandon, we appreciate the invite on this, of course. I’ve, uh, become a listener. I’m trying to catch up on all these podcasts you have put out.

I have there’s a lot. I, I have had these light bulb moments just in the, the weeks, you know, just the previous weeks, you know, listening to some of the podcasts and things, so a couple of them I shared with you in the pre. Uh, our pre-meeting, I won’t, I won’t give the nugget. We’ll wait for the episode, you know, but, um, I really appreciate the opportunity, man, because at the end of the day, anybody listening to this is in this industry, um, and we all go through the same stuff.

Either, either you’ve been through it or you’re gonna go through it, you know what I mean? And I, I just, I, I think the unification and knowing that there’s others out there that, that, um, are seeing it, have seen it, um. Do it this way, they do it that way. Hey, they both got a good result. Maybe I can hybrid something of what I’ve heard, you know, so, um, I guess that’s what I would like to end with, sir, just thank you for the opportunity. I’m as much looking forward to this as you are, I think.

I, I appreciate you guys, you guys, uh, being guests. Yeah, uh, Josh, I know you were, you were super excited about it because you like to talk a lot, so. It was, it was, uh, no, I’m just kidding, but yeah, Joshua, I do appreciate you let me twist your arm into it and then bringing Cody. I’m, I’m super grateful to you guys. Oh, it’s awesome, man. You know it’s always an inside joke with my family because you know my kids, my, my baby is old, but I always tell them one day I’m going to go viral.

I’m gonna go viral this end up doing that, you know. I sell a good friend of ours, uh, Christian for moose painting, you know, I was like, what one of the, I just want one thing to go viral one time so I could tell all my kids I did it. Yeah, viral like Christian Manhart, exactly, yeah. Uh, yeah, I appreciate it, man, and I do look forward to the next upcoming episodes for sure. Yeah, we’re gonna get this thing to go viral. Yeah, that’d be awesome. All right, thank you guys.

All right. All right, thank you.

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Hey there, painting company owners. If you enjoyed today’s episode, make sure you go ahead and hit that subscribe button. Give us your feedback. Let us know how we did.v And also if you’re interested in taking your painting business to the next level, make sure you visit the Painter Marketing Pros website at PainterMarketingPros.com to learn more about our services. You can also reach out to me directly by emailing me at Brandon@PainterMarketingPros.com and I can give you personalized advice on growing your painting business. Until next time, keep growing.