Welcome to the Painter Marketing Mastermind Podcast, the show created to help painting company owners build a thriving painting business that does well over 103 million in annual revenue. I’m your host, Brandon Pierpont, founder of Painter Marketing Pros and creator of the popular PCA Educational Series to grow marketing for painters. In each episode, I’ll be sharing proven tips, strategies and processes from leading experts in the industry on how they found success in their painting business. We will be interviewing owners of the most successful painting companies in North America and learning from their experiences.

In this series titled “3rd Generation Painter, 1st Generation Mindset”, Joshua Joosten & Cody Roberts of Sequoia Painting will be sharing their story on building a near $2m residential and commercial painting company based in Tulare County, CA. They will be detailing the changes that Sequoia Painting has undergone from starting as a post-retirement hobby for Joshua to a profitable and growing enterprise with a very unique approach to the painting industry.

In the final episode, episode 5, Joshua & Cody will lay out the big future plans for Sequoia Painting, including the potential for a nationwide franchise.

If you want to ask Joshua and Cody questions related to anything in this podcast series, you can do so in our exclusive Painter Marketing Mastermind Podcast Forum on Facebook. Just search for “Painter Marketing Mastermind Podcast Forum” on Facebook and request to join the group, or type in the URL Facebook.com/groups/PainterMarketingMastermind. There you can ask them questions directly by tagging her with your question, so you can see how anything discussed here applies to your particular painting company.

It’s guys, how you doing this? Is it? This is it the finale. You bet. Final finale. Yeah, this is it. Uh So where are we going? You guys building the franchise? You, you gonna conquer Certapro, what’s the plan? You know, that’s uh that’s a fun topic for me because I I I’m all about goals, right?

And and I think, um when I really started having goals with the mindset of this definitely could happen if you work hard enough. Um Goals got more exciting for me, you know, I, I think that’s the big difference between uh a wish and a goal, you know, is putting in the effort to say, hey, what does this look like? What, what, what do we have to do to make this reality to, to make this be what we do, you know? And um I think, or my, my, my, my goal or my, my vision and this is changed.

I, I think it’s ok for goals to kind of change and mature and morph, you know, especially those long term ones, you know, I think um any business owner would be lying through their teeth if they said, oh, yeah, no, that goal, that five year goal I had, it’s still exactly the same. It was when I made it five years ago, right? Like it’s a very conservative goal and they’re not very ambitious then. There you go. Right. So it’s uh having these goals mature and, and morph, I think is awesome.

Um A lot of that has come by whether educating myself, you know, listening to podcasts like yours and listening to all these other uh listening to brilliant minds that are out there that have uh are speaking from a place of experience, you know, or um speaking of a source that’s highly, highly regarded. So I think a lot of what we have done in the years past, we’ve always had the goal or the mindset of value, you know, how does this company have value? And, you know, Joshua’s unique perspective on it coming from generations of painters before him.

When you remove that sole proprietor, the value just about went to nil, you know, and that’s, is the case for majority of sole proprietorships, you know, if once that owner is removed, the value greatly diminishes. So his perspective of that, um, was a huge influence on how to, what do you build, how do you build it to where? That’s not the case. You know, now, ownership will always be important, you know, to state the obvious, but being able to have the skilled people in play someday, you know, to where ownership does not necessarily affect your day in day out type operations, you know.

So Joshua had that goal, I believe before I came around, you know, once he had that realization of, um, he had already really built something that people were drawn to, you know, uh, from the retirement hobby to phone ringing off the hook to people just, you know, they wanted Sequoia painting, there was a call for it. He built, uh an intriguing company name, you know, he played off of what we have in our backyard for the name and the logo. And, um I think when he realized that, that he had, he had pushed the snowball off the cliff and it was gonna be more than just a hobby that goal to make it valuable, whether he had to make all the decisions or not, you know, became at the forefront.

So that’s always been the goal of sequoias, I believe since even, you know, before me coming on. And, um, I, I, you know, we had, we’ve had a few conversations in the recent past on that topic and in my opinion, what for what it’s worth? I think your ultimate value is when it becomes franchised, right? Like how you, you can, we make it valuable and enticing enough that people want that to be the way they make their living too. You know, it’s an interesting statement, Cody. So, so you, you think the, um, the ultimate basically value realization of a company would be when it can be franchised and you’re, you’re approaching this from the perspective that the person buying the franchise is seeing that level of value or the, the fact that the systems can be transferred to somebody or how are you thinking about that kind of all the above, honestly?

Right. Because II I would my, my, my vision or my goal for that value to be able to be seen with from the 23 year old, uh, or 250 years in the industry veteran. That’s like, hey, I’ve been a sole proprietor, I’ve made a good living. This is something that I could actually retire, retire from to that young hung hungering entrepreneur that sees all the systems in play to be a profitable business when you find the people to run those systems. So I, I guess I would have to say both, you know, I, I, the, the appeal, the appeal to any, to kind of have a, I know it’s not always great to have multiple avatars, you know, to see the, to see the, to see that.

But that is kind of that, that’s where my brain goes with it, you know, is to have it be established enough, branded enough known enough that there’s appeal to kind of, there’s appeal abroad, you know, so I probably should have mentioned this in the beginning, but you’re both wearing hats. A lot of people listen, you know, don’t watch, you’re both wearing hats, Cody your hats, kind of whatever, you know, it’s not bad. I don’t hate it. It’s God damn, I’m not sure that um but Josh, your hat’s a good looking hat.

So if anybody listening, who’s, who can’t see Josh’s hat, you should probably just check out the video at some point. It’s a great hat. It’s an awesome hat. Yeah, a great friend gave it to me. Um So, so we, we see the value in the franchise. It, it’s a repeatable system, I think, I think it’s a, it’s a really difficult thing to create a really effective franchise. Because you have to be able to, to take the systems, the processes, you have to put it down on paper, everything that we talked about in the last episode and you have to actually be able to transfer it to a stranger to come in and, and then run it in a, in a similar fashion that’s not gonna drive your name into the ground.

That’s a scary hard thing. And then you have to have that stranger see the value in it enough that they’re actually willing to pay you money. And then probably persistent royalties for the, the privilege of being able to use your system and your name. Tall order on, on both ends is this where Sequoia painting is officially going or is this just an option? You know, it, I’ll put that as the option currently, right? Because I, I think the they’re not short term goals. I think the other goals involved to get there are gonna have to be, um, a larger service area for us here in our area which to, and to me results in more locations, you know, more brick and mortar offices, whole, um, whole other divisions.

You, you know what I mean? So a non franchise, you’re saying, you’re saying owned by you guys, these divisions. That’s correct. That’s correct. So I, I think that’s the, that’s where we need to get Sequoia first in my mind. And I guess I’m looking at, at that as a consumer, you know, um, for somebody to truly see value in the brand. Um I believe that’s more sellable and has much more appeal when it’s, um, not just what we’ve done here out of one operation hub, but it’s something we’ve done in several locations throughout California in terms of selling it to the franchisees. Right.

That makes sense. Yeah, you vetted the concept. It wasn’t a, like a unicorn location. Right. Right. 2100%. I love it. Do we, have we talked about the difference between a, a dream and a like a goal and a dream? Right? And my goal involves the planning and the self-confidence to know you can get there and, and actually putting the steps in place. Do you have any kind of plan for this or is it, hey, I just know that we need to open multiple locations to make this viable.

So, I mean, we won’t divulge too much on that, but there’s been everything, all of it, but we’ve had, we’ve had a couple of serious talks in the last uh recent weeks of strong potential for a secondary location down in Southern California. That would be the start, right. Um At this point, there’s no, there’s no call to action for it. You know, we have not penciled out the road map to it, but there’s a lot of the pieces required um that are kind of right there for us to, to go get, you know how would you go about selecting an operator for that?

That’s one of the, that’s one of those on the white board with the big question mark next to it. That part usually tends to be a bit of a sticking point for people. Yeah. Uh Like most things, um it would prob it’s, it would require uh an insane amount of energy from myself and Joshua to make something like that happen, which would mean uh our, our home base here, our number one priority at this point, we would not want to famine there to feast somewhere else. So it would have to be, we’d have to be very solidified here.

Um More than we feel we are, you know, to justify doing something like that. Yeah. So I um I went to an Alex for Mosey conference probably just bring it up and on these podcasts into perpetuity because it really was my, one of my favorites right there. You like him? You like Alex? Love it? Is that the 210 to 2000 Yeah. Oh yeah, he’s just, he’s awesome. Yeah. The game. So, yeah, most people, so I, I didn’t ask because most people, especially in the painting industry haven’t heard of him.

And I’ve been doing the podcast long enough to know not to set up my guest for failure so that you’ve heard him. But he, yeah, he’s, he’s for those who haven’t check out the podcast, the game. Um because he’s, he’s a super bright dude, but I went to his conference acquisition.com. They talked about how the most successful CEO s most successful business owners build their businesses really with an investor mindset. And then they, one of the key tenets which I hadn’t really thought about before was that the most effective CEO S are the best resource allocators, which is not something I had thought about, right?

You hear, you hear about like people management and, and visionary and you hear these things, but the most effective resource allocator. So when you’re saying we wouldn’t wanna have a feast in the famine because we’re opening a second location. That’s how a Great CEO has to think because you only have so many resources. That’s right. I love it. The most important being and, and really the most limited being your time because people think money is the limiting resource, the money is, is abundant if you have the right mindset and there’s no, there’s no upward cap, but there’s no ability to expand your time. 103%. 210%.

So we’re opening four locations tomorrow. Ok. Right. 2000%. Yeah. Yep. Totally agree. So, II, I feel like I’ve talked quite a bit about this. I know uh Joshua’s got some input on um, those kind of things also, you know. Um I don’t know how much, I don’t know. I’m looking pretty in that hat. Yeah, it’s been uh, these have been like those behind closed doors type conversations, you know what I mean? And when they’re, um, when they’re ready to be public, the first public that gets them, of course, is our team here, you know, um, that’s that respect Bill that we’ve talked about a whole bunch in all of these, uh, episodes that we’ve done with you, the respect and the trust and, um, when that becomes more than, um, when it becomes the, the factual goal that we start writing a roadmap for, um, our, our teams are definitely gonna be knowledgeable to it.

You know what I mean? You’re not gonna call me first and say, hey, we need to do this podcast and then, and then we’ll like air the podcast in the office. Yeah, for sure, for sure. This is what’s happening. Yeah. Yeah, I love it so that if the franchise is the, is the goal, it sounds, I know it’s maybe not officially mapped out, but it sounds like it’s certainly a very strong possibility, potentially a probability, I guess. What potential hiccups do you foresee? You know, probably just the bigger scale of hiccups we already have experienced and I’m sure will all along the way, you know, it’s uh I, I use that term quite a bit.

It’s not always unicorns and rainbows, you know, you can have, you can be as well planned out as possible and still get the variables, you know. Uh I think just because it has been, um I don’t wanna say the struggle, but probably the biggest consumer of time is the people. Yeah, getting the right people, you know, um, and putting them in the right place and getting them in the right places 210%. So, um, I don’t know if that’s the biggest hiccup. I, I just kinda, that’s one that’s always on the front of my mind.

Um, even through our calculated growths here, you know, and what our plans for 25 and 26 you know, and those kind of things look like is the people do is, uh, are they here? Do we need them still? You know. Um, I, I see that’s kind of my i it’s not, it’s kind of a never ending pursuit, right? Because the good human beings are out there. The good human beings that fit your culture are the harder ones to nail down, you know, for sure. Yeah. And I think with, with the Franchising model, you, you start to develop multiple levels of customers because in a way your franchisees are your customers, you know, they purchase from you, they purchase a franchise and then so you’re kind of having to serve them, but then also the, the actual and painting company client, it, it’s similar in some respects to running a marketing agency because now you have two levels that you’re serving.

Whereas if you’re running a painting company, it’s, it’s more kind of direct to owner one level that you’re at. Yeah. Yeah, 100%. And I, I said that just because that’s my view of kind of the, the ultimate value in a service based company. Right? Is finding enough value that you can franchise it. Um, I still think that process would not all, would qualify. Right. I, I think us when we would have franchise franchisee applicants, that would, the way I see it, I would see that being probably not as fast of a process as someone would expect it to be.

You know, because I don’t want to get into uh a situation even when it’s not ours, it has our brand on it. And that’s the part I care about, you know, to find the franchisees that wear the brand that we’ve created and do it in the way that the original Sequoia painting expects. You know what I mean? Have you read the, the book, um wtf willing to fail by Brian Scuddamore? I have not. Ok. He is a cool book. He, uh he was the founder of 1 800. Got drunk.

So, you know, National Junk Removal franchise successful. Uh It’s a neat book. I, I would check it out. I read it a few years back, just had to look it up. Uh Remember which one it was. Um But with the franchise, so, so we have the challenge of the ultimate level of success, the ultimate level of replicable, you know, ultimate level of, of somebody seeing the value in what you’ve built. Why franchise? Why, why not just, hey, we’re gonna open this second location potentially one day, maybe in Southern California that goes well, then maybe we open a third location that goes well, why not open 100 locations?

It’s a great question. Um I think to be able to oversee it but from a distance and not be completely in it, I guess, you know. Um That’s a great question. Uh I think uh there’s probably professionals out there that have strong arguments for what you just described, right? Like, well, if you’re in a franchise, why not just keep opening up locations till you’re done opening up locations? You know, I mean, I think the one of the arguments for the franchise would be that you have another entrepreneur, you know, kind of, kind of running it, right?

Someone really hungry hus there’s ways to structure a bigger corporation like that through a profit share or whatever uh with the employees. But I think there’s a strong argument for a franchise. I think there’s a strong argument for fully corporate owned. You can go on. It largely depends on what you want to achieve. Um Yeah, we’ve worked with a, we work with a number of franchises that painter marketing pro. So I, I know them quite well and then obviously we work with a lot more independent painting company owners.

So I, some of which have applications. So I’m, I’m quite well versed in this trade. And I will tell franchise is the, one of the more challenging aspects would be that you do need to serve and respond to the needs of the franchisees. And that can become cumbersome depending on the size that you reach. Right. Yeah. But I guess you, you could make that trade versus responding directly to thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of homeowners, which could also be cumbersome. Oh, absolutely. They’re always reasonable though.

There’s, there’s never any crazy in there. Yeah. Uh huh. Gosh. What are your, uh, what are your thoughts on, on the future of Sequoia painting? Uh, you know, honestly, I, I Cody and I have had had several conversations and, and I’m, I am just, uh, willing to go in whatever direction he’s wanting to take this, you know, if it’s, uh, making, you know, some type of generation wealth within just Sequoia painting itself or making a franchise, um, I’m, I’m ready to ride that wave with them for sure.

You know, things really gotten away from me, man. This is not the retirement that you have not one bit. If you would have talked to me about 0003 years ago, this would have never been in my forecast of plans for sure. You know, I like iron and maybe doing some golfing and, and, uh, painting here and there was kind of my ideal vision but, uh, never in a million years I thought I wouldn’t have dreamed that sequoia painting is where it is at today. For sure. It brought in a hungry young buck and this is what you get. Yeah. Yeah.

For sure. Yeah. And that’s what he is, you know, he’s always, he’s always brainstorming. He’s always, you know, researching and, and, um, coming up with different ideas all the time, for sure. You know, and I, again, I just go with it. It’s not always a good thing, Brandon, I think I said in one of the episodes, right? I’m, uh I don’t want to say I’m never satisfied. I just have a hard time believing something’s perfect. Sure. You know, I, I always, I don’t know why I’ve just had that mindset for as long as I can remember of ever improvement.

You know, I, I don’t see value in the mindset of thinking something’s as good as it can get and it can’t get any better. You know, I just think there’s opportunity for improvement, almost any stinking thing you do throughout the day no matter what it is almost, you know. So it’s a little bit of a curse sometimes, you know, and sometimes I gotta reel it back in, you know, and uh to adopt Nick Slavic’s term, you know, let’s not let uh perfect stand in the way of really good.

But at the same time, iiii I like improvement, you know. So I’m, I, I strive for that, whatever. It looks like a blessing and a curse. So the another thing that I learned from, from Alex, it was actually a recommendation that he gave me personally, which I found really interesting. I’m not sure I publicly spoken about it yet and actually I’m pretty sure I haven’t, it’s not something I don’t think. I, I think I’m not interested in it, but I got to talk directly with him for about 10 minutes.

Kind of went through the whole marketing agency who we serve our future plans, how we got to where we’re at. And he number one said he has no interest in investing in my company, which was fine because I had no interest in receiving the investment from him. But that the acquisition events are really a lead funnel for him for his acquisition. com, right, basically make minority investments and, and acquisitions. Um But then the second thing he says is, you know, the the marketing agency should almost be secondary and you, you have this, you have this exposure to like, well north of 100 painting companies, right?

And, and throughout our the life cycle of our company, you know, several 100 right, that we’ve, we’ve touched and experienced in some form of depth and, and done business with a lot of them. And he said you can actually see who the strong operators are. So you have this kind of unfair advantage. And what you can do is you can take a minority stake in painting companies, so you can go, go down the M and a route, take a minority stake and then essentially consolidate that all under what he said your flag like some one brand and basically make it this, you know, super multi location painting company and then ultimately exit that painting company, which was kind of interesting.

So my question to you is, have you guys considered, you know, M and A as opposed to growing organically or Franchising? Not, hasn’t really been a topic on the white board. Um I gotta add it though. What’s that? Now? Now you have to add it now, now it has to be added. You’re absolutely correct. You’re absolutely correct. You need to be added most definitely. Um Thanks Brandon. Yeah, it’s like that just set us back a year. Uh I, I think, and I think this is something that may come from also, there’s not much replacement for organic, you know, like it, it’ll be your most, um, most fruitful, I guess, you know.

Um, but there’s all, there’s, there’s other options out there, you know, like I said, we’re always, I don’t think there’s dumb questions, I guess is, is what I’m trying to get to. I, I think most things are worth looking at, you know, and you may look at it and say, well, put that in the, don’t ever look at it again, pile or you may look at it and say, hey, that might be something I look at in 1 to 3 years, you know, or hey, we’re gonna have to, we’re gonna have to be uh 50 mil company before I bother looking at that or, you know what I mean?

II, I think open, open minded uh to information is pretty crucial when you’re trying to be a leader, you know. Yeah, 100%. Do you, for sequoia painting? Do you guys ever intend to exit, intend to sell or do you, do you wanna hand it off to your kids or what’s the goal here? Another great question. Um I know that’s been a, a talk right of that value that we talk about and uh it being a machine that runs without an ownership’s input on a daily basis. Um I don’t know if that means that’s what will ever happen, but that’s the, that, that was kind of the goal of the operation of it.

Um I, I would say initially, I guess just because it is still like a real young baby. You know, as far as the brand goes, I couldn’t see myself abandoning, abandoning it, but um maybe not having to be as fully involved would definitely be where I would see that long term kind of ending up, you know what I mean? Passive ownership. Yeah. With the, with the kind of abandoning it that you were kind of joking about. Um there’s been psychological studies that, that like, you know, analyze the brain, they can hook, hook stuff up and kind of see what, what neurons are firing, right?

And what different areas of the brain and for entrepreneurs, when they talk about their company, the same area of the brain is activated as when you talk about their Children. So it’s actually coded. Like we, we do feel that attachment to our companies as though, you know, we, we bore it right and raised it and kind of made it what it is. It’s very much a, a very strong attachment like a child. Yeah, it’s weird. I’m scared to think about that, but it makes sense. Absolutely. All the time and effort you probably put into it.

Same thing like a child. Yeah. Changing his company’s diapers for years. Yeah. All those dirty diapers. Yeah, definitely. Oh, definitely. Yeah, I mean, you guys have some, some exciting stuff, planned some big options. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Um All comes back to the people and providing opportunity, you know, I think that’s the, but that’s definitely something that I have strived for since coming into this journey with Joshua is continue to build and grow something that offers opportunity, you know, for the, for those that want it that is, you know, not everybody wants opportunity but the ones that want it to facilitate that, you know what I mean?

You know, there’s a lot that, that you guys talked about a lot of just discussion points that I think would be good for listeners to think about in terms of their own future. I think it’s so easy for us as business owners to get just stuck in the day to day and grind. And I think the, it’s less common to actually be projecting out and what’s the future and, and where are we going? And would we ever want exit? And do we everyone open other locations or franchise?

And so I think a lot of the stuff we talked about would be really applicable to listeners in terms of where are they going, you know, some introspection. You bet it’s, I said it’s not always the unicorns and rainbows, right? It’s, there’s times that it’s difficult to foresee getting past the hurdle that’s in front of you, you know, but we always find ourselves getting over that hurdle and then the hurdle is no longer, no longer an issue, right? That’s why windshields are five times the size of a rearview mirror because we don’t need to look back that often.

We need to once in a while, but it focuses forward. You know, I love it as we wrap up this episode as we wrap up this full series, which I very much appreciate you guys doing with me. Thank you. Is there anything else you wanna have for the listeners? So, one, Joshua and I were talking, I think it was yesterday or day before that we did not touch on, on our feather ruffling topic of the no project managers and Joshua brought up our ability to schedule and kind of the influence that that has in making sure we’re successful in the field.

Right, and circle that back to knowing your people, knowing their strengths. I mean, we have sops, we do all this training, but when you have a crew that the last time they did an entire house worth of cabinetry, it overwhelmed them a little bit. So before we do that to them again, you know, maybe they do a couple kitchen only or they do a laundry room and a bathroom or things of those sorts, right? And these kind of notes stay in there, uh employee files for us to reflect on as needed and that kind of thing.

So a big um and how, why we didn’t think of it when we were on that episode talking about that, but a pretty big uh ode to the scheduling of projects, you know, and continue to set your teams up for success, you know, play to their strengths um as best you can and when there’s, when there’s room for improvement, doing what we need to do to get them up to speed, so they don’t have that negative anxiety inducing experience that they had on, on that job that didn’t go the best for them.

You know what I mean? I love it, man. Yeah, I think we, we talk a lot about catering to the customers and to their needs and if they have specific requests, but we rarely ever think about doing that for our team if that’s your role and you just need to do it and you just need to suck it up. But I like the fact that you guys are willing to, to acknowledge that people are human and work with them and, and do set them up for success because ultimately it’s gonna set your company up for success as well. Correct.

Yeah, I mean, and it’s a, I’ve never directly had that conversation, you know, with the guys until the result of them getting brought back a little bit. Then we recap, you know, so if we had a, an interior paint job fall behind schedule and we can dissect it to a coordinating flaw, not an estimating flaw or, you know, along those lines. Um Once we have put them in a situation a couple times to be successful, then we’ll have that meeting about, hey, so let’s look back at the job that didn’t go as well that we fell behind on a little bit.

And now let’s look at these ones you’ve done and how good and smooth these went. What did you do? Different? And if it’s just overall size that got to him getting them to understand paintings, painting, you may have 10,000 square foot home to paint, but planning it out like that 1800 square foot, same rules are gonna apply. Don’t let the magnitude overwhelm you break that 10,000 square foot home down into manageable pieces. He had no problem doing this standard size home or, you know, normal size house. So keep that mindset the next time we get you in one of these large scale homes, keep that mindset.

Let’s split this thing up into what we know you can succeed at until that big home doesn’t overwhelm you and induce anxiety for no reason. You know, Cody. That’s genius. I mean, that’s, that’s so the empathy, the level of empathy there is so far above and beyond. So many business owners thinking, ok, they just, you know, got overwhelmed or made a mistake or maybe there’s some kind of hiccup in this project, but I’m not, I’m gonna acknowledge it. I’m gonna start changing things for them, but I’m not even going to have that conversation with them until they get a few wins under their belt and go back and revisit it.

That’s you. We need to, uh we need to probably get you doing some life coaching or some therapy or something really good, you know, but it just in my experience whether it was in the workforce or now, you know, being here with Joshua is there are bad eggs out there, right? And there, there are so I don’t ever wanna make it sound like there’s not, but generally speaking, when somebody has a job, they want to be good at it. Right. And, and especially in this industry like most painters are painting because they like that gratification.

You change the appearance of something, it looks better, it looks taken care of. It’s more presentable, right? That’s a instant feedback of your efforts. When you repaint something that finished product is that affirmation, you made a difference. They want to do the same in almost all aspects, you know. So log the winds note the losses and build on the winds until the losses continue to shrink and are no longer a factor. You know what I mean? Yeah. So the uh how many estimators do you guys have?

Uh just, just one, just one in the residential. He just took over my role doing that uh at the beginning of this year in March. So let me ask you this would let, let’s say your estimator is not closing. Let’s say, let’s say you had an estimator and then maybe, maybe you replace the estimator, maybe added a second one and one of them is not closing, but he seems he seems good. You’re working with him, you, you’re trying to train him, but you know, it’s costing your company a lot of money.

How do you handle that? We gotta have a performance improvement plan, right? And we all have to be held accountable. And if you’re in that position, there’s a clear job description for it. We have goals for landing rates and the job description I believe is uh set you up for success if it’s done correctly or done wholeheartedly back to the SOP thing. Write down what you’re already doing. Right. Our sales sop is what I did. So, I, I guess, I don’t know if that’s a different perspective or not.

I know the formula can work when it’s carried out correctly. At least four out of 10 times. Right. And that’s the other fun thing about sales. You kind of got to be a sucker for pain because you get told no more than you get told. Yes. You know, otherwise you need to raise your prices so you get told no, some more. Yeah, some, some, I, I would say if I had them in that position anyways, I obviously felt the potential was there, right. So before I second guess my uh, opinion or evaluation of that, we’re gonna see where, where are we losing?

What, what’s causing us to lose? What aren’t we carrying out effectively? Let’s get that performance improvement plan in place on that. And let’s make, let’s make, let’s make a difference, you know, now, like any performance improvement plan, there’s gotta be a line at the end of it. Right. So we don’t ever want to demote or let people go that we feel are good, but that’s back to the health of the company thing. I, if it was just could not meet expectation. Mhm. Depending on how they came into that position.

If it was somebody that promoted it from within you know, maybe we’re going back in a van for a while. We’re gonna, you know, we’re gonna let you be a tradesman. Um, not saying sales couldn’t be a potential for you in the future, but this, this probation period just didn’t work out, you know? Cool. Yeah, I was curious about that one. do you guys have anything else you wanna add before we wrap up this series? Um, now I feel like we’ve said, I, I have anyway, I get kind of long winded.

I know Josh is he, he, he listens a lot but Josh, we don’t have all the answers. We just have our answers, you know, and we have our answers either from bang in the head against the desk because something didn’t work or we ended up putting something together that was pretty successful the first time and we have stuck with it, you know. Um I, I think just knowing or having at least an idea of what you want from your brand and what you want your brand to represent is the ultimate starting point and depending on what goals are, what they look like.

You, you just have to get things in place to make that a reality, you know, and we know it’s the, it, it, it, it, it sounds silly to even say it, but we always do anyway, you have to do, you have to start and that’s the only way to do it is to get started doing it. Well, Joshua Cody, I appreciate you guys. I appreciate all the hours we spent together. You guys being willing to open up so much about your company and your personal lives and, and share it with our listeners uh for their benefit.

I know they appreciate it. Uh so on behalf of myself and them, I want to thank you guys for your time. Oh, thank you man. It’s been an honor and I appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks for the invite. Brandon. Thanks for doing it.

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