Welcome to the Painter Marketing Mastermind Podcast. The show created to help painting company owners build a thriving painting business that does well over one million and annual revenue. I’m your host, Brandon Pierpont, founder of Painter Marketing Pros and creator of the popular PCA educational series, Learn, Do, Grow Marketing for Painters. In each episode, I’ll be sharing proven tips, strategies and processes from leading experts in the industry on how they found success in their painting business. We will be interviewing owners of the most successful painting companies in North America and learning from their experiences.

In this series titled The Dream Team, Corey and Chad Leister of inspired by you will be discussing building a championship team, how they think about specialization versus diversification in their company and finally how to move from a supportive role to an effective business partner as a spouse.

In episode one, Coy and Chad dived into the importance of and logistics of building a championship team for growth. In episode two, this episode, they will weigh the pros and cons of specialization versus diversification and discuss the balance they have found while running inspired by you. And in episode three, the final episode, Corey and Chad will open up about their transition to working together as a couple and how to navigate this at times treacherous road successfully. If you want to ask Corey and Chad questions related to anything in this podcast series, you can do so in our exclusive painter marketing mastermind podcast form on Facebook.

Just search for painter, marketing mastermind podcast form on Facebook and request to join the group or type in the URL facebook. com/groups/painter marketing mastermind. Again that URL is facebook. com/groups/pain Mary Mastermind. There you can ask Corey and Chad questions directly by tagging them with your question. So you can see how anything discussed here applies to your particular painting company company. What’s going on guys? Hey, Brandon, how are you doing? Well, episode two, we’re back for this one, Corey. I know this is, you know, we’ve done some live virtual webinars events, roundtables, things like that together.

And I feel like multiple times people have approached you asking, hey, is it better to specialize because you, you talk about your focus on kitchen cabinetry and then I know you talked about potentially moving to some more. Uh I think it was countertops or remodeling. Uh And then you had um some interesting answers to that. So I’m glad that we’re getting to take a whole episode to talk about it. Yeah, I’m looking forward to it. Chad. I, I hear you’re the the man for the job here as well.

So you’re gonna get to talk some this episode. We might give him some air time. I’m just listening. I’m good. Just listening. Well, you’re part of it, brother. So I wish I could just listen too sometimes, but I can’t got to participate. Maybe, maybe we can start with just, you know, the, uh, we, we talked a lot about how the company started in terms of the personnel. You know, the first person we, you guys brought on and, and the Cultural Fit and how you guys have learned to build a dream team.

Let’s talk today about how the company started in terms of the focus uh of niche and then whether that has evolved and if so how it has evolved over time. Yeah, I, I’ll, I’ll start and then I’ll let Chad come in because he kind of entered in with all of the other uh diversification that we’ve currently added. Um But when we first started, uh I, I was really, I was out visiting my sister, I was doing uh furniture, uh home decor, uh you know, all kinds of stuff, wall murals, things like that.

And so I knew that I wanted to form a business. When I got home from that trip, I got a call from one of my mom’s friends asking me to paint her kitchen cabinets. So our first job was a cabinet job. Um But initially it was like, ok, I want to start a business. I’ve got one kitchen under my belt. Uh And I just need to figure out what I want to do because I’ve always had a passion for art, like any kind of medium, pottery, sculpture, painting, drawing, like I loved it all.

And I love teaching too. So initially I was doing furniture home decor kitchens. I was running classes on how to do your own home decor, uh things like that. So I was just kind of incorporating all of the things that I love into it. Uh And then it was just kind of shooting all over the place trying to figure out what was gonna stick and cabinets. Uh We just, it worked, um, it was pretty lucrative. Um It made us money, furniture artistry. Um As much as I love it, it did not make any money because people are only weighing pulling so much and so kitchens were, it was lucrative.

It was challenging because no matter how many kitchens you do, there’s always a new problem to be solved. Um And it, it required a lot of growth. Um And so, and that, that was all things that I love too. Uh So it was, you know, that constant learning and constant challenging to this day, we’ve done hundreds and hundreds of kitchens and we’re constantly learning something new. So to be able to specialize in something like cabinet, refinishing, it, met all of my desires um for, for growth. Um And, uh and so we we did, we just specialized in kitchen cabinets, uh, for the past several years.

Uh, and it wasn’t until recently where we started to add on additional services because when people go into a kitchen, like what, what we were finding is people were trying to track down all of these other contractors to get their countertops and backslash flooring because when they’re doing their kitchens, a lot of times they’re doing a lot of this other stuff too, interior painting, things like that. And because we specialize, we were missing out on a whole bunch of income. That could be, uh, you know, those streams of revenue could be directed back into our business.

And so with Chad’s help, we kind of took the reins on that. Chad, I’ll let you pick up from there, but Chad deals with all of our countertops backslash flooring, he connects with our interior painter. We do new rebuilds. So we still have our, our niche like which is the, the cabinet refinishing. Um, but we’ve added all of these other complementary areas um, to serve our customers at a greater capacity. Yeah, I mean, it’s time to sign, Chad, take it away. I mean, I mean, I, uh, you know, when I, when I took over in 2020 the sales part, I just kept going into homes and everybody wanted to do countertops and backslashes and then we’d have to wait for those contractors to get done before we come in because we prefer to do it uh, before we paint, uh just in case they mess up the cabinets.

Um And uh I was like, why ain’t we just doing this and taking care of this? We know, we know plumbing people, we know demo people, we know backslash people. We classic rock, um, a distributor of uh counter, you know, granite and, and quartz. Uh They’re right down the street from us. Uh We painted their kitchen, uh the owner’s kitchen. So why don’t we partner with all these guys and, and then we can control the project. Um So, you know, that’s what, that’s what’s happened since then, you know, and it, it’s, it’s, it’s been great.

Um The countertops, the backslash, you know, new doors. We partnered with the door company to do new doors, uh on all of our oak kitchens, all of our oak kitchens get new doors. Um And, you know, I dabbled into the flooring, but now I just kind of, you know, just refer people out to the flooring and I know that they’ll get it done. Now, the interior part is coming on the back end of things now too. Um But the, the biggest thing is, um all these are happening or bonus stuff to our business.

Uh Our main, our main niche still is cabinet that’s who we’re known for and that’s what we want to be known for. Um And then we do this and we do that. We do this and we do that. Uh, but we want to be known for cabinets and then we add on, we have add ons. So, will you, if someone contacts you about an interior painting project, will you go do it? Oh, yeah, no doubt, no doubt. And then, and then, and that’s coming where, you know, people are starting to look at us for that.

But at the end of the day, you know, I never want to get away from the niche of the cabinet. Um But I think people will know it’s inside the home. We want to be more inside people’s home and develop more inside uh home than outside the home. Um There is a point, there’s a four month point where we’re trying to do interior exterior expansion and it just didn’t work because then people forgot about our cabinets and, and that was, that was a, that was a big red flag for me and it was like, hold up, let’s get back to the basics and just focus on cabinets and we can add this stuff on, you know, this business started with the goal being one a month to pay for our kids.

Uh private education, uh expanding into these other realms doesn’t have to happen all at once. Uh It could be one project a week, it could be, you know, one project a month. Um So eventually it’ll ramp up to like what we do with cabinets. Yeah. So the, I, I guess people look at specialization versus diversification in different ways. I think people generally like to diversify, overly, like to diversify. It, it feels safer. You know, there’s more ways to take money. You don’t want to give up opportunity.

A little bit of a scarcity mindset. But then because this idea, ok, if you only do cabinets or cabinets, your primary focus. Well, what about exterior painting projects? Right? There’s all these exteriors, you guys are missing out on all that money. So how do you know, how do you draw the line because we could take that even farther. What about the roof? You know, if they remodeled the house, who knows they might replace the roof? You, why don’t you guys open up a roof and do it and if you’re doing roofing, of course you’re gonna wanna do gutters.

So that, so where do you draw the line between, hey, this is gonna be a, a cross cell or an up cell versus, you know what this is too far. Yeah, I think, I, I think everybody has their own bandwidth of what they can do. You know, um, we’re in a season of our lives where our kids are, are very heavily in sports, you know what I mean? And it, it, it’s even in our, in our like, uh our family and see some of our brothers and sister-in-laws, you know, I mean, do different things, their kids kids are at different ages, you know.

Um, they’re not, uh, everybody’s life is different, you know, some people are running businesses, some people have kids that are high active in sports. Uh, you know, it just depends what you can do with your bandwidth. Um, to me, um, Corey’s really good at cabinets and her team’s really good at cabinets and that’s the foundation. Um, and then we’ll add on what we can. It’s like bonus. Um We project what we’re gonna do in the company off the cabinets and everything else is bonus and then we’re gonna get pretty good.

Yeah, everything we’ve ever everything Corey and I have ever done. We wanted to be excellent at and, and we wanted to be great at so we already know interior is gonna be great like the cabinet, we already know countertops and, and backslashes are gonna be great just like the cabinets. Um But the foundation is still gonna be cabinets. So Coria, that’s preference. Go ahead. Brandon. Oh no, I, I think you had a, a point. I was gonna shift a little bit. Well, yeah, I was, I was just gonna say um yeah, your bandwidth but also um just being I, I feel like everything that can lend itself to the cabinets is something that we’re willing to bring up like the the countertops backslash is a no brainer.

Interior walls is a no brainer because after we, we spray the cabinets like if there’s touch ups or stuff that needed to be done. Like that’s a no brainer exterior that’s outside of the home. It’s not a need. Like it doesn’t really lend itself to cabinets, roofing doesn’t lend itself to cabinets. So anything that we can tie in, like we are known for cabinets, we are the cabinet specialists. We just got back from California because we did a kitchen out there because they wanted us to come at, you know what I mean?

Like that’s what we’re known for. That’s our specialty. Um And we’re the experts with cabinet refinishing. Um So we don’t want to divert our attention too far away from cabinets. So as long as it can lend itself to cabinet refinishing and we feel it can be an additional service that we can offer our, our customers. Um It just, it makes sense. Um And, and so we, we can draw that line pretty easily and we have ventured like in complete transparency, like we, we ventured into exterior, we ventured into some of those things that they, they kind of were outside of the, the scope that we wanted to, to keep it into.

And um and it didn’t, it didn’t work so well. Uh So we, we try and we try and question ourselves like, ok, is this gonna serve our customers at a high level within, you know, kind of our wheelhouse of what we’re known for? Yeah, so the I know you guys mentioned you had looked into flooring or you, you tried flooring and now that’s not really as much of a focus. You refer that stuff out. What about popcorn ceiling removal? What about wall wallpaper removal or wallpaper installation?

Are you guys doing that stuff? So, yeah, we’ll do wallpaper removal. Um You know, we have an experience the lead painter that, that knows how to do all that stuff. We don’t get a lot of it right now. But yeah, we’ll do it. Yeah. Yeah, just, I mean, we’re still in the, we’re still in the very um starting phases with interior. Um, you know, you know, it’s, it’s, yeah, I, I think it’s actually gonna probably um one day bring more revenue in than the cabinets yearly. Um But people will still probably look at it as the cabinets who do interior. Sure. Right.

And, and stuff like popcorn ceiling removal. Again, it’s gonna lend itself to cabinet refinishing because it is so much easier to mask a kitchen with a clean, smooth ceiling than it is to mask a popcorn ceiling kitchen. So if we’re able to deliver that service, um we, we go in and like we’ll add new builds to like we have, we have a guy that we work with who can go in and manufacture a new island for them or add crown or extend the cabinets up to the ceiling.

So like that kind of stuff too. Um Anyways where we’re able to um just serve our customers. So how long have you guys been doing these secondary or supplementary service offerings? My favorite countertop. The right being in 2021. Yeah, I was gonna say October 2020 is when Jim Dorff came in and did a class with us and he started kind of getting our wheels turning and he was like, you’re going into kitchens and there’s so much money on the table to be had that you’re losing because you’re not offering these services.

And he, so he started getting our wheels turning and then he and Chad had some conversations and then Chad kind of took the reins on that. Yeah. So I would say that was, that started then and the interior really didn’t start till the end of last year. Um And you know what I mean? It’s in an effectively. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, and we, we haven’t even begin to touch that yet only because, uh you know, I’ve been super swamped with uh cabinet um sales and um um just estimates that we haven’t had enough time to really focus on even calling back all of our, our people that we’ve already serviced and let them know we’re going interior now.

So this to me and I love you guys. So don’t take this the wrong way in the world. You might, I, I hope you don’t, but the, the vibe I, I almost feel right now is the vibe of someone who starts a business just in general. And they’re like, no, it’s a great, it’s a great market opportunity. It’s, it’s super simple, right? We’re gonna do this. People need it and it’s all gonna be and it’s like everyone has a plan, you know, as Mike Tyson says, until they get punched in the face and I feel like I feel like, and you guys are probably sat down to come up with hard rules.

This just looks like a slippery slope to me, right? Like I just start an interior painting. We think it’s gonna be this bonus. No, we’re the cabinet guys. We’re definitely the cabinet guys who do interior painting. I feel like there are gonna be hiccups here and it’s like, ok, where do we draw the line? Are we losing the focus of our business? Have you guys sat down and, and, and kind of thought hard about what, what could go wrong maybe with this. We’ve been through a lot of wrong.

Like we’ve, we’ve already been through a lot of fun. We’ve figured out, ok, like this is not a direction that we wanna go and, and we maybe an example. Yeah. Oh, exteriors is a great example. Like we had some disasters with exterior painting. We’re like, no, we’re not. Flooring was another one. Like there was a big disaster with flooring. We’re like, it’s not worth it like we’re done with that. And so it’s been uh like, you know, as business owners, it’s, there’s a lot of tri fail adjust.

And the great thing is like, we have tried so many different things to come up with a proven system that works really well for us and while it may work really well for us, it may not work well for everybody. Um just like uh the subcontracting model, it works really well for some people like Bradley Ellison, I think of like it works amazing for him. For us. Not so much. We love our team, we love our culture, we love, you know, it, it’s just, it’s so different um our business model.

Uh but at the same time, it’s been a lot of that. You know what? I think the, the biggest thing about us, we’re not afraid to fail like we will, we will go, we will try it and if it works great, if not, we’re gonna adjust and we’re gonna figure it out and we’re gonna move forward. So that though we’re not afraid to fail mantra and, and try fail adjust. I think that’s you guys are already running this successful company with this, with a successful team and you’re still humble enough and adventurous enough, you know, daring enough to go fail in different ventures.

And that’s OK. It doesn’t make you a failure or it’s not an embarrassment. It’s just part of growing as an entrepreneur in a business. I think people are afraid to do that. You know, you, and, you know, if they go, try and they fail, well, that there’s a sense of shame there, but that’s entrepreneurship. It’s all try, fail and adjust. Well, I think when you’re, when you have that growth mindset, you know, like if I fail I’ll just find another way. Like, it’s, it’s a winning mentality.

It’s like you can’t lose unless you stop trying. Like failure is not losing. Like you lose when you quit. Like when you fail, you just find another way. And so there’s, it’s, it’s just a different mindset. There was a mantra that I repeated over and over when I was early on and things were pretty difficult. I would say the only way I fail is if I quit and I will not quit and I would just get over and over every single day and, and if you don’t quit, it’s inevitable that you’ll succeed.

You have to really just be beyond help, which I’ve never met anyone in this space or really anyone period. Who’s that, that far beyond help. If you just apply yourself the right actions every day over an extended period of time and you refuse to lay down and die, you will succeed. It’s hard, but it’s not that hard. You don’t, it’s not winning an Olympic gold medal. Just don’t give up. Yeah, no question. So, Corey, are you still doing the, the painting or are you still involved with that?

So, I wasn’t I was actually moving into a, uh, a, uh, project manager role like that. That was the goal here. Um, but we’ve recently had somebody leave. So, yes, I’m stepping back into a little bit of a painting. It’s two days a week and it’s, it’s not, I mean, I can definitely do it and get results and, and like, it’s not, it’s not a factor but we’re moving in that direction. Absolutely. Um, you know, we’re looking to, to just find, find the right people for every position and coming into this year, it was like, oh, man, we’re finally at a place where you’ve got everybody in the right positions moving forward functioning really well.

Um, and then, you know, you run into hiccups and you adjust and you make it work and, and you, you continue to move forward. But yeah, I still, I still am in some of the production right now, um, temporarily, but that we’re definitely moving in the direction where we won’t have to be doing as much of the physical labor. I would love to, um, just work more with the customers. Um II, I love that aspect of it and help alleviate chad too, uh, with some of the, the burden that he carries because if he was set free to just sell, it’d be lights out.

But right now because he is dealing with a lot of the relationships with all of the, the contractors and stuff. If I could alleviate some of that pressure off of him. That would be ideal. Yeah. The I, is there any piece of you because you’re passionate about the people, you’re passionate about the culture? But you’re also passionate about the art. Is there any piece of you that is sad, giving up that production, you know? Um No, I like art but I don’t like it that much. No, no, no, I, I like it.

I’m not sad about giving it up because then I can do it because I want to do it and because I love to do it, not because I have to do it. Um So I’m, I’m not sad about giving it up at all because I have people that I could trust to get the job done at the highest level. It was really cool. Um Today I uh we do uh evaluations with our team um quarterly and, and I do too on Fridays and I just had two this morning and one of our teammates just the way that our, our team functions.

It’s pretty, it’s pretty incredible. Um But Kalila was in here and she was just saying how she loves our team and the way that we want to perform for each other. Um We truly care about one another and she said she, for, for instance, she remembers being on site one day with Christine and Christine says I just, I need to make sure that this is perfect because a spray crew is coming on behind me tomorrow and I want to make sure that they don’t have to fix any of my mistakes.

And it’s like that kind of, um, like we want to do well for each other. Um, and it’s just a really, really cool environment. Um, it’s, it’s pretty neat. It was very cool. So the, the way you said I want to do it because I want to do it right now because I have to, it reminds me of that book, uh Eth Revisited by Michael Gerber. It talks about at the bakery, I think that the love baking. And so she opened this bakery and if you haven’t read the book, read it Eth Revisited and uh didn’t end up really liking baking so much after a little while there.

So she got her business record. Yeah, but it, it put pressure on you to perform, you know, it’s, it’s a different feeling. Um, but it also, I mean, there’s something to be said about that too, like when your back is up against the wall and you have to get a job done. Like there’s something to be said about Manning. I’ve been getting back that done too. But at the same time, like being able to, to do that work harder part, to get to the work smarter part and to be able to, to just alleviate some of that pressure is pretty awesome.

Yeah, 100%. And I, I think that’s, it’s interesting because I think a lot of entrepreneurs do work hard. You know, we, we don’t choose this road because it’s easy because Lord knows it’s not easy. So the, that big inflection point of like, ok, you’re a workhorse, you’re a jack of all trades. You can do all these things and make it all work and, and fit it together and work harder and longer at some point. You probably want to start working smarter or else you’re just gonna burn yourself out.

You’re never really gonna create a sellable asset. You know, Jason Parce talks a lot about that, like making your painting company sellable and truly an asset. If you are running everything and if it fully relies on you, then it’s not transferable and you can’t sell it. Right. Well, and I think some people just have that badge of busy that they, they take pride in their important. Yeah. And it’s uh I think that it’s just a different mindset to get to another level. I’d love to be on a beach somewhere, you know, like the corona commercial drink at a corona and also be important.

That would be cool. Yeah. Yeah, I feel that I would, that would last for about two days with me. So I pull out my mind. Um So let’s go into the, you know, for the people listening, obviously for you guys, you’re passionate about cabinet score. You started there. You guys are you take pride in your work. So everything you do, you’re gonna make sure you’re exceptional at it. You’re not gonna use subconscious. You, you have a, a better ability to control the quality of your work, but you’re also passionate about the culture and, and the people and impacting people’s lives.

And that’s harder obviously to do in a subcontractor model for people who are listening to this and maybe it’s not cabinets, maybe they’re, they’re thinking about just doing interior versus exterior, maybe just thinking exterior. How should they think about specialization versus diversification? Hm. Yeah, Chad. Do you wanna go first? I’ll let you go first find Sean Chad. Well, I’ve always been, uh, I’ve, I’ve always believed being your local expert. I mean, be the expert at, at what you do. Um, um, and I think, uh, uh, you know what I believe in, you can’t be all things for all people.

You can’t be the expert in everything, you know, find something, find a niche. Um, and be an expert at it. Be the local expert at it. Be the people that are, are always gonna come to you locally. Um, and, um, yeah, I mean, it, it’s like that let’s less choices, more sale. You know what I mean? That’s just my, in my mindset, uh, for a long time, you know, you give so many choices. Um, sometimes you don’t get any of the sale, um, because you’re not the expert.

So I’d say they be the expert. Who are you? The expert, Corey’s the expert in this area. The reason why we brought on uh a marketing team was because we wanted people to not even Google anymore. They, they, we were gonna be in their face all the time locally. And if you want your cabinets done, you’re gonna call that local girl. You know what I mean? You’re not gonna think about it. She’s the expert locally. So that, that would be my advice. Yeah. And I piggyback on that and just say what’s gonna differentiate yourself from the masses?

Like what is everybody else doing that you are not doing or what are you doing that everybody else is not doing? Like what is gonna make you stand out? What’s gonna make you special? What’s gonna make you um the choice of for people to go to. So no matter what you’re specializing in, why would people choose you over everybody else for us? People choose inspired by you because they want quality, they choose inspired by you because where women don’t, I mean, like that, that’s something that’s a differentiating fact.

Uh they choose us because you know, they, because we’re faith led and we’re not afraid to talk about God. Like some people are gravitate towards that like um you know, so what’s gonna differentiate yourself from all of the other people? And if that’s the people that we’re attracting, then we’ve got a great client like our customers are, are some of the best people that we’ve come in contact. And, um, and so no matter what your industry is like, like, no and what you’re specializing in what makes you special and just blast that.

Like, that’s, that’s what you should focus on when you’re marketing and, and whatnot because, um, people hire us for quality and they, when they want interior painting services, they will come to us. Not because we’re the cheapest in town, right? They will come to us because they know, man, if they can do cabinets, the way that they do cabinets, then they’re gonna do my walls really well. You know, like that’s why they would hire us for interior painting and, and the, the service that it provides, they have Chad as a contact point, like he’s so instrumental in, um, like providing a service to our customers where they don’t have to track down other contractors.

Um, because if you’ve ever tried to schedule contractors, like, for us to find the contractors that we have, it took us many years. And just because so many contractors are unreliable and so many people don’t show up when they show up and so many people don’t get estimates out when they do. And Chad is somebody, he’ll go and send it, he’ll go and, uh, give an estimate and he’ll get it out to them and he’ll follow up and he’s a great point of contact if our contractors are screwing up, he deals with the contractors.

Our customers don’t have that burden. So, I mean, Chad’s such a great asset in that capacity because he’s, uh, he just provides such a great, um, service to our customers. Yeah. Yeah. And I’ll, I’ll piggyback one more thing off the separate, uh, be a separator, like Corey said, and separators this within 24 hours. Can you get back with the person who wants an appointment within 24 hours or do you let him go and go and go? I’ve heard this, uh, yesterday, uh, somebody’s been trying to call people for months and I ended up referring to other guys to for like other things that he needed done construction wise and stuff and he was so excited and I already know I’m gonna nail the job of the whole house interior and the cabinet because I went out of my way to help him.

Um, when he was getting no help and no callbacks. So many contractors are falling short because they’re not calling people back and, and then they don’t get the jobs. You could easily separate yourself by calling somebody within 24 hours and book an appointment or having a great CRM system like drip jobs and be really professional, how people are like, man, our drip jobs is so professional. We, we just know you’re different. Um And I will also say that I’m a copier, but I’m a copier and watching people who are successful and have good fruit on the tree.

But I don’t want to copy exactly what they do because I want to make it my own. I see nowadays in this local market people copy Corey all the time. And it’s so funny but they almost are advertising for us because it looks like us and it, it comes right back to us and it’s just, it’s a be a fruit finder but then make it your own. Sure. So we’ve, you know, we obviously believe in that, right. Painter, marketing pros we specialize in and work with painters.

I’m confident, very confident we’re the best in the industry at doing it right? Because we, with marketing for painters, there’s a, there’s a unique way that you need to do it that we’ve mastered. Um cabinet cabinet requires a higher level of skill, requires a uh a different infrastructure than maybe exterior interior painting would require. Exterior painting is probably the, I guess the easiest to sub out if you will right there, there’s lots of a customer experience or potential issues that would go on there. But one of the things that I see that that people do are questions that will, that people ask me about specialization versus diversification.

To me, it seems like they don’t get it. So they, they kind of think, hey, we should choose something because then we could, we could say that we chose this thing and that’s a little bit like what you guys are saying with the with the hey, you know, be known for something or, or differentiate yourself in some way, right? So there’s there’s the aspect of differentiate yourself just by being looking different. And then there’s the aspect of differentiate yourself by actually being better, right? And you guys are better with the cabinets, we’re better with the marketing.

But then there are people who say, hey, what if I just do interior or if I just do exterior and they’re approaching it? Not from this. Am I gonna go in and provide the quality? Leave with the quality that Corey you were talking about that? Then it’s gonna say, oh my gosh, if they did this with the cabinets, I can’t imagine what they’re gonna do with the walls. But they just want to say, hey, we just do interior or we just do exterior. What are your can, can somebody start like that?

And then maybe they figure out the quality over time or they figure out that in and of itself is not enough or, or they just want to focus on the exterior and call themselves the exterior experts. How would you guys, I guess. How would you guys walk someone through that? Who’s saying, I, you know, I think I’ll, I’ll sell better if I niched down, but maybe they’re, they’re not thinking about it the same way you’re thinking about it. Can I start there, Corey? Is there? Yeah. Every listen, I, I think you just got to go and you, you, you figure it out in your journey and enjoy the journey, enjoy the process of it.

I mean, everything Corey and I have ever done it started small and ended up big. Everything. And why I say that is because we built something very significant in a multilevel marketing uh business. But I remember when it was small, I remember what we did when we were small and I can’t believe what happened to it when it went big. And then when we started over again with something else. Uh I bought a bread business, a bread uh route business started small, ended up big. She Corey started out of the garage, started small.

She had no idea it would be where it is today. You just have to go and get started and enjoy the journey and figure it out along the way. I don’t think Corey ever said, I’m gonna be the cabinet expert. I think it just happened in the journey and I think people need to just enjoy the journey. I think people get stuck by that. And I, and I’ll say this to me. Even some other ideas I have in life is I get stuck thinking about it rather than just doing it.

And I think they just need to do it, Nike just do it, just do it. Yeah, everything starts small, everything starts small. Yeah. And, and again, it’s just not being afraid to fail and, and accentuating what again, like, even, even if quality isn’t your thing just yet because you’re just starting out or whatever, what makes you different? Like, ok, so when, when I was starting, I would, I would put pictures of my kids up there, you know, like let people get to know me. Like, I’m a woman.

I’m, I, I love my kids. I love my family. I love my faith. Like, what makes you different? Why would people want to buy from you as opposed to Joe Schmo down the road? And, and, and I just think of like somebody like uh Curtis Tankersley with just a paint. He’s right down the road from us. He has a great uh interior like a, a residential painting business and you know, that his crew has fun, like they love music, you know, that they have fun together that, you know, that their clients love them.

Like when, when I think, uh like, you know about a company just by what they’re posting on social media and you can kind of get a feel for what they’re like. Um And, and that should be a goal is to just you, you have a mix of, of that professional posting like where you’re doing before and afters and, and you have a mix of that purposeful um post where you’re adding value to people, but you also want to have that personal touch. Like what makes you different.

Um So again, like if you’re just starting out, like why would I want to buy from you? Uh And why would I want to use your service as opposed to somebody else? Tell, you know, and there’s, there’s benefits and people will choose, like Curtis is right down the road. People will choose his business over ours. Like some people just like that better and that’s ok because there’s a ton of houses, you know, and we support that business and they support us and, and it’s just, I, I think if more of us worked together like that and, and lifted each other instead of trying to beat each other down, it would be a much better environment.

There’s a ton of houses. So that is an abundance mindset. And it’s true. This is not a, this is not a, a very limited market. You know, we, we’re both friends with, we’re all friends here with Chris Mole. You know, he’s, he’s running a highly successful company in a town of like 12,000 people, you know, something just ludicrously low. Right. So the odds are that wherever you’re located, you have a lot of market opportunity and we have, we’ll have people come in sometimes have a strategy session with us and they’ll, they’ll be, but we have like a, a million population or 1.53,000 population and they’re, they’re like a million dollar company and they think it’s time to diversify.

But they need to diversify because they’ve tapped out their market. Do math that Jason Paris walks through, you know, cal calculate your number of Sherwin stores, how much, how much paint sold per year, how much of that goes toward, you know, residential repaints. And you do this math, you end up figuring out that you own a very, very small percentage of that market. So if you’re diversifying because you think you’ve tapped out your market, I would encourage you to not look at it that way. I would encourage you to look at it more how Corey and Chad are looking at this like, hey, th this is money that’s basically being left on the table.

You’ve established this trust when you go in and you do a cabinet repaint, refinish, there’s typically going to be, you know, countertop installation or there’s often often going to be interior painting to the follow. You’re already in the home. The cost of sale is basically zero. They already trust you. You can, you can make a healthy profit margin on it because they’ve seen your quality and they trust you and they’re, they’re ready to work with you. So you’re just leaving money on the table by not offering it.

That’s different from, hey, I don’t, I don’t, I think it’ll be easier. This object shinier. This guy down the street is making more money. So let me go do that. That’s probably not the right reason to diversify. Yeah. Yeah. That. Yeah. I mean, eventually they have to profit at the, a, a yearly will be less than all the extras. It really will be. It really will be. And we’ll never do more than two cabinets a week. Um, we have a plan to someday do, um, to search out woman, uh, owned businesses and, and do all sales and marketing for them.

Um, right from our office, um, and, uh, help build their businesses and keep their calendars filled. No. Yeah. And, and I think Chad had touched on this earlier but just not being afraid to be who you are. Some people kind of skew their perception and on social media to, and, and I, I remember being at a PC, a conference conference one time and somebody came up to me and they’re like, how do you do it? And I was like, how do we do? What, like, how do you, like, put up this front every day?

Like, like, and, and you know, just with your posts and stuff? Like, how do you get your team to smile? And I’m like, what do you mean? I’m like, we’re always like, that’s who we are. I like my threat of death. Look happy or die. Yeah. It’s, it’s just, it’s so crazy because you don’t be afraid to be who you are. Like, people will not use our business because we are faith led. Some people just don’t like that. Some people will not use our business because we have a team of women, like, who cares, like they’re not our customer, like, don’t be afraid to be who you are because you’ll attract the right people for your business.

And again, there’s so many other house and people like customers that they can go to somebody else. Um, and, and so I just, I think so many people think that they have to put on this, this front or this, uh, they have to do the, the right thing. Um, and, and post the, you know, just all the perfect stuff you don’t like. Sometimes some of the posts that I think will get no traction are the ones that get the most. It’s, it’s wild to me and, and I don’t think people should chase other people’s businesses either.

Uh, I think that, that, that’s a big hiccup in people’s businesses. They hear, um, people who let me just say they hear numbers, I don’t wanna say successful, not successful. They hear numbers and they hear big numbers. Hey, we did this many million this year. Um, and we’ve always been in the mindset. Listen. Um, what does our family need? And do we have a profitable business and not a job? Um, and that’s the goal, whether it’s 1 million or if it’s 3 million or if it’s 201 million or if it’s 23 million.

And I think people sometimes get, they chase those numbers are like, well, I’m not successful if I don’t do this many millions. II, I disagree with that. II, I think you’re successful for what you need for your family. Yeah. Even if that’s like, 25,210. Like, I mean, it doesn’t even have to be a, like, it’s, I, I think some people beat themselves up tremendously. Um, if, if they’re not, uh, chasing the Joneses. Sure. Yeah. Sure. And it, it’s unfortunate and I think it, it, it kind of happens because you look to these companies that have scale, right?

They’ve achieved some level of, I guess revenue success, whether or not they’re profitable or not because we know that if they’re at, you know, 22.2,21.5, they’re in the field, they’re doing the work and maybe they don’t, maybe they want to be doing that, maybe they don’t want to be doing that, right? So we, we kind of put out this, this, hey, these are the bigger companies, these are the companies that have scaled and gotten to here and here’s what they’ve done. But how do you convey that information while maintaining uh the frame of mind?

Like, hey, just because they’re at like you said, 1.53 million or 21.5 million or 22018 million doesn’t mean that you’re not successful if you’re not at that. It’s, yeah, look at your life map out your expenses map out what you want, kind of your, why, you know, why are you doing this? What does your life look like, Rami Rami Seti, I think is how you pronounce his last name. He, he’s a, uh, should not have been following him for some time. But he, he has a show that came out recently on Netflix called, called Your Rich Life.

And he’s basically talking about everyone’s rich life looks different. So what is, what is important to you? He’s very against the, you know, that there’s a, all these schools have thought like, hey, $210 cup of coffee every day don’t buy it because then you add it up and you save all this money, right? He says if you want the coffee, if that makes you feel rich, get the coffee. And so it’s what are your priorities? Don’t cut back mercilessly relentlessly on the things that don’t bring you value because you shouldn’t just waste money there and then spend what other people might view as exorbitant or stupid on the things that you do value, right?

And go and go spend on those things. So I think the same can be applied to your business. You, you, if $1 million if someone else has a company at 1 million or 500,000 and they, they’re, they, they feel like they’re not successful because they want to be at 5 million. But you have a business there and, and you are successful because you’re meeting your needs. You’re, you’re home on the weekends, you’re working 9 to 20183, you’re or whatever it is that you want to do and you’re bringing home the amount of money you need to live.

This is all about carving your, your journey and your destination where entrepreneurs, no one has to tell you what you want. If you want that, then go, you know, go apply for a position at Walmart. You’re running your own business. And I think the, the point you guys too made about you’re kind of tag teamed at, at different times throughout this episode is don’t be all things to all people and that will inherently repel people. So there are, there are people who will not do business with you because of the, the way that you act or, or because of your values or because it just doesn’t, isn’t fit for them, but not only, not only does that basically make sure that the people you’re working with are good.

It’s actually gonna make your experience in, in your projects run more smoothly. It’s probably gonna make you have less customer issues. It’s probably gonna make you have a higher percentage of positive reviews out of your projects because you’re starting off on the right foot. No. Yeah. What’s your guys process for trying to get reviews? Hm. Go ahead to. No, I, I mean, I don’t think it was very good. So I, I listen, I think we did a horrible job uh uh up until just Se September to be honest with you.

Uh, we should have way more reviews that we do have. Um, but we just never focused on it, to be honest with you. Um, uh, would you, would you agree with that Corey? Like it’s more of a focus now than, than we ever did before, than we ever did before. So, you know, um, you know, like I said, with trip jobs, I mean, automatically when they, when they, um, uh, you know, get their final receipt for their invoice. Um we already hit them with a review and, you know, ask them for a review.

Uh And uh it is, it is uh I mean, I bet you we got more in the last five months than we have in years. You know what I mean? Yep. Yep. And it was a simple, it was just a simple uh tweak, you know what I mean of asking for it rather than just automatically thinking they were gonna do it. Yeah, that goes back to what you were saying. Chad, just with the communication leveraging ac RM like drip jobs. But building that efficiency and that technology into your company can be a game changer.

Yeah, and just making it user friendly, like before we would ask for reviews but like it just making it as easy as possible for your customers. I think that that’s been a game changer too. Yeah, because they get a link and they all they had to do is click on it and fill it out and it’s done. Yeah. Yeah. So um so yeah, yeah, keep it simple. So in general, you guys are, are both pretty big fans of specialization. Is that fair to say? I would say so, uh I, I think that it’s um because we like to establish ourselves as, as a team of excellence.

Like I think that it would be hard to be excellent in multiple areas, you know. And um and so it’s ii I would encourage it like become an expert at a, at a specific thing and then you can add in things that would be complimentary. Um But I, I think that it’s worked really well for us. So let’s push this a step further because you had said, you know, the that some companies will use subcontractors and for you guys that might not be the right fit. And I know that culturally, you want to build a team, you want that team to, to be very excited to work and happy, happy team makes happy customers at the end of the day.

If people are, are saying, hey, I, I’m listening to this, I like this. I want to specialize. I want to be the best in my field in my area. Does that mean that they have to use W-2 employees? No, not at all. I don’t think so because I think there’s a lot of, I mean, look at Brad, I mean, I think he’s probably the best of the best in, in his area. Um, but I don’t think he has any W-2. Yeah, I mean, I’m not, I’m not, I don’t want to talk out of turn but I mean, I just, I think, um, he just had some excellent background of, of the industry too that he brought, he knows how to work with subcontractors, which I’ll say this.

I bet you Brad would say this. I bet he feels like those subcontractors are his team but he just, they’re subcontractors. You know what I mean? They’re just the name of a subtractor. But I bet you, he treats them like a team like we treat our people like a team. Yeah. You know what I mean? That’s what I think the way I know Brad and Rachel, I, I just think they probably treat those people like their team. Yeah. Right. And I mean, if that’s the, if that’s the way, like you can specialize with subcontractors, like I feel like that’s what they’re doing.

They’re specializing with subcontractors and they’re becoming the best of the best in that field because that’s what they’re, but like they, they have a, a proven process that’s setting people up for success, that setting their subcontractors up for up for success. Like they have the, you know, just all of the, all of the stuff that they need to run a successful business that is specializing with subcontractors. So I, I think like that is a type of specialization. Yeah. And I bet you, I bet you uh uh like, well, listen, how we got our, our lead interior painter is I made sure he kept uh his, his calendar stayed full.

They couldn’t work for somebody else. And now, you know, you know, that’s what I did, you know. So then, so now he wants the workforce full time. He wants to come on board rather being a subcontractor. So I bet you Brad does that too. Like if you’re, if you were a painter and you don’t have to go looking for work, I bet you’re like, I, I, I’ll, I’ll do anything for you, buddy. Like, hey, Brad, I’ll call me, call me, you know. Yeah, I love it, man.

And the, the subcontractor out it, you kind of get to, I guess, work with a lot of talent and so you can figure out the crews that are just phenomenal and you can make sure those crews are, are kept as busy as humanly possible so that they really become loyal and, and kind of like employees, I guess of your company. Yeah, that’s been the challenge is just finding those people that like with, with our interior painter because we’re known for quality. We have to be like our, our interior painter has to be on point like he has to be incredibly attention to detail.

He has to deliver the quality that our customers expect um because they are paying for quality, they’re not paying for like a, you know, a general interior paint job. And so to, to sift through and to again learn from failure, you know, and to find the right people that’s been the challenge. But now that we’ve found one, he’s been incredible and he wants, he’s in line with everything that we do. Like he wants to train other painters how to get the results that he’s getting. So that’s just kind of how we operate here.

So it makes sense for him to become like a W-2 with us and join our team and, and grow in that, in that realm. So happy you said that because the, you get, you guys have found a really good interior painter and that’s your challenge now and you’ve, you’ve have someone who can train people and is, is motivated and will probably be good at doing that. But then we’ve also talked about hearing these big numbers and 01 million, 3 million, 5 million, 10 million. Those things are sometimes at odds because you’re trying to control this quality.

And therefore you’re saying that’s your biggest challenge if you and and Chad could be out just crushing sales in a way that maybe he’s not because of, of these other parameters and, and you know, quality control concerns. Do you find that that because of your focus on quality because of, of your needing to protect your reputation and make sure that your clients are getting the best results possible you grow more slowly. I would say that’s been a, a bit of an inhibiting factor. I mean, Chad, despite all like, Chad still II I should have think what he could do if he was not with all of his stuff because he is like, he’s, he’s so like just our, our January numbers, I think he said he was on track to sell 2.2 million this year and just like all of that stuff by himself.

And generally a sales guy, a good sales guy will generate like 1.5 million a year. And so he’s selling like crazy. Um But yeah, I think, but we’re, but we’re, but we’re, there’s so much stuff sold already too. Uh because it’s a relationship thing man too. And that right now with four hats, I feel like I wear daily. Uh It’s the follow up and follow through. But we were taught that man and selling energy drinks and, and vitamins and as basic skincare, it’s the follow up and follow through.

That is the personal high, yes, be high tech but be high touch. Yeah. High tech and high touch. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I just, yeah, I forget my thought there but I don’t know if it was slow though. Bra like if we looked at Corey’s numbers and I always go back to Corey uh like to me, I brag on her all day long and I brag on uh her team all day long. That’s my job. You know what I mean? They, they do the hard work.

I do the easy work. I get, I get to, I get to tell the story all day long. That’s, that’s what I do. But what Corey has done from her garage to now, I don’t know if it’s slow growth, you know? You see, that’s a perspective too. Like, I don’t think she grew slow. I think people, if they really dug into looking at how it started to where it is now, they’d be like, holy heck, how did that happen? Because it blows my mind where she had come since that garage.

It blows my mind and that’s where we want to power and uplift. Only because Coy’s a, a woman business owner. Nothing wrong with the guys, but that’s our niche too. We want to go help other women business owners who are running businesses like this and take them from a garage to where this is and make it successful just like Corey did. And I love that. How are you guys gonna do that? We’re gonna do virtual sales online. That’s what we’re gonna do. And you know, we’re gonna take that, we’re gonna take that place.

We’re gonna take that, that big burden off of people’s shoulders um and fill their calendar so they can produce and then eventually get out and train other people to do so they can just work with the people and project manager and be the owner. Are we talking about? I just wanna get clear here. Are we talking about another company you guys are gonna create here? What are we talking about right now? We’re talking about building offices right there where Corey’s sitting and we’ll have, you know, so many sales people sitting in there doing estimates in different areas across the United States, right, virtually online through personal connection through Zoom or Google meet up with video and uh doing their estimate, we can do, we can do estimates back to back to back and not even have to drive and just do it virtually with them.

And so we were talking about like just uh as inspired by you gross like Chad and I were both just very entrepreneurial mind minded like I’m not a cabinet refiner, I’m an entrepreneur like that’s just how my mindset is. Um so as we grow and scale, like we’ve developed some great systems and processes with cabinet refinishing here, like there’s no doubt like what we’ve got, it’s, it’s pretty special and it’s it’s pretty awesome. But how can we grow and scale without adding to the burden of our, our employees, you know, and and what are some other ways that we could grow?

And one of those ways is by diversifying through subcontractors like countertops, facts, flooring like grow, growing our cabinet refinishing business to 1.5 and then 1.5 in sales with all of the other stuff like that’s a, that’s an easy way to scale because we’re keeping where we’re at with cabinet refinishing. But we’re diversifying. There was another way that we can grow and scale while we can duplicate what we’ve done here and inspired by you, like not, not franchise for specifically, but we can create a model where other people we can train and we can develop other businesses across the nation.

Because through social media, I’ve developed a network across the nation, we can train other business models, uh other businesses and then we can all um we can develop where we can use our sales model and we can go and sell for all of these other inspired by you all across the nation. And so it, it would be just a way that we can empower other women across the country. Um It would be a way that we can alleviate that sales, the demand of, of selling um and uh generating business.

Uh We can all share photos like this is an inspired by you. Um before and after and we can all share, we can help with the marketing concepts like there’s just so many um things like it’s kind of limitless the possibilities of what we can do in the future. Um And so we’re just, it’s, it’s in like the beginning phases of it. And we’ve been talking through a lot of the logistics and how we’re going to do this and, uh, and when we’re going to be doing this, but it’s already developing.

Um, and so I think so many people, um, with that scarce mindset, they’re, they’re constantly asking me like, why do you share everything? How do you share everything? Like you’re constantly sharing, like your process and your system and your SPS and why do you share all of this stuff? And I’m like, well, if you are doing what I’m doing today, then you’re already a step behind my business because we’re so far ahead, like we’re constantly growing with our mindset and tomorrow we’re, we’re gonna be growing, we’re gonna be doing it differently.

So if you take our sops from, let’s just say last August to where we are today, it’s completely different. Like, I mean, we have the same base, but we’re doing a lot. We’ve, we’ve implemented so many more efficiencies to grow and to produce better results um in just a six month period. So we’re free to share, share because it’s such a, a different mindset. It’s more of a growth mindset, a wealth mindset because we’re, we’re constantly doing something new and different. Boy that gave me goosebumps, man.

That was awesome. Credible. Yeah, you guys are doing really, really big things. Yeah. Well, we love to, I just, I think that we have been blessed with so many great things here. If we can empower other businesses to grow and operate and to, to bless people and across the nation. I think, why not, why put limits on what we can do. And, and I think that I was just talking with one of our, with one of our teammates this morning, um, who was saying she has trouble setting goals and I just said, I, I have trouble setting goals too because if you would have asked me five years ago where we would be today, there’s no way, like if I would have set goals five years ago, I would have totally put limits on what we could accomplish and, and we wouldn’t be where we are today.

Um, but it’s, it’s pretty awesome when you just, I mean, for us, we just walk by faith and, and it blows the doors off when you and I didn’t pick up a sprayer until 2018. Like to think, to think of that to where we are now spraying industrial coatings in a state of the art spray booth, like in, in this incredible facility. It’s just, it’s mind blowing what can happen. And so we just, we love, um, thinking outside of the box and, uh, and growing and changing every day.

I feel like you just, you just opened up two hours of conversation as we’re wrapping this up. We talked about if you were to set goals, then you wouldn’t be where you’re at today. And I’m like, oh man, you know, there, there’s a lot to unpack right there. So hopefully we’ll, we’ll get to that next time because I think that’s a, that’s a major point you just made. I, I do want to get like a quick follow up from you here now. Maybe I, if, yeah, because everyone always says set goals, right?

Set, set goals. I, I have kind of done more of what you do. Like, hey, I’m gonna, I’m gonna work as hard and chase opportunities and, and try to do the best I can and see what happens and, and I kind of put limits or exactly what needs to happen. But that’s contrary to the advice we always receive. Yeah, I know, I, again, like I just, I, I think that I definitely think differently than a lot of people because everybody is like, where are you gonna be at this time?

And, and I’m like, no, I can’t, I can’t because I, I think for us being faith led for me, I feel like it’s putting limits on what God could do. And I think that my God is a very big God. So it’s um for me, I definitely think so much different. Um But I love putting things. Uh I was just talking with Ryan here today and she was saying how I said, what are your goals? She didn’t know and, and I said, well, if you could be anywhere where in life where you wanna be, what would it look like?

And so she was telling me, and I was like, oh so basically you’re looking for peace of mind like you don’t wanna be stressed about money, you don’t wanna be stressed about, you know, where you’re gonna live, you don’t wanna be stressed about like a lot. You’re, you’re just looking for peace of mind. You want time and money, right? She’s like, yeah, I said put it up in front of you, like visualize it, see it like and that’s not like setting a goal. It’s just like putting it out in front of you and like casting that vision because I believe that if you have a vision it can come to pass.

Um And so you, you attract what you believe. And so I said, just put it up in front of you, write it on your mirror with the dry erase marker, you know, peace of mind, put it everywhere because that’s gonna help you. You are in life where you are because of the choices that you’ve made. And so I said, if you have that out out in front of you all of the time, it will help you make choices that are gonna help you get closer to that.

Um And so I think that there’s, there’s just something to be said about having that vision, but also believing so big and uh and not having goals per sei I mean, I think that goals are great but I believe like if you make the right choices and if you’re constantly striving for excellence, everything you want in life is gonna, you’re not gonna have to worry about a thing. So, it’s just a different way of thinking. Corey. I’m so happy we’re doing this podcast series together. Me too.

I feel like I really, uh, I, I’m getting to see a side of you that I hadn’t, hadn’t seen as. So I like it here. I thought we, you know, we’re on the marketing committee together and I thought you were a little more tame or, or docile. You’re a, you’re a lion, you’re a beast. I know you gotta pray for your child has to deal with me. It’s, I love it. You are. I would always joke. You’re flipping the tables, you probably are actually flipping the tables, you’re laughing like I would never do that.

As soon as that zoom cameras off, 10 tables are flicked. Now, I know now I know, uh I can get very passionate about things. I move in guys. This is, this has been incredible. Is there anything else you want to touch base on, uh regarding diversification versus specialization or anything else we talked about the day before we wrap up this episode? No, I think I’m good. Chad. Do you have anything to add? I’m good. I appreciate you guys chat. I know we ran over a couple of minutes.

You got a, you got a bubbly personality and a beautiful smile. So I know that you’re gonna make the sale regardless. That’s great. Appreciate you, Brandon. All right, we’ll see you.
Keep growing.

Keep growing.