Welcome to the Painter Marketing Mastermind Podcast. The show created to help painting company owners build a thriving painting business that does well over one million and annual revenue. I’m your host, Brandon Pierpont, founder of Painter Marketing Pros and creator of the popular Pc, a educational series, Learn, Do, Grow Marketing for Painters. In each episode, I’ll be sharing proven tips, strategies and processes from leading experts in the industry on how they found success in their painting business. We will be interviewing owners of the most successful painting companies in north America and learning from their experiences.

Alright. On this special live episode at PC Expo 2023 we are hosting Jason Phillips. This is episode four of Jason’s series. People Make dream businesses. In the first episode, Jason discussed key one to escaping contractor prison. In episode two, he discussed key to to escaping contractor prison building a highly effective team. In episode three, Jason discussed key three to escaping contractor prison creating and implementing efficient systems. In this episode, episode four, Jason will be discussing, you’re painting companies needs to market itself for long term and big time growth, which Jason knows quite a bit about in episode five, the next episode, Jason will elaborate on the disc personality assessment and how to use it to ensure you have the right people in the right seats.

And in the final episode of this series, episode six, Jason will take a deep dive into motivators. How do you get everyone excited and motivated to help your painting company grow and succeed. Again, if you want to ask Jason questions related, anything in this podcast series, you can do so on our exclusive painter marketing mastermind podcast for him on Facebook. Just search for painter marketing mastermind podcast for him on Facebook and request to join the group or type in the U R L facebook dot com forward slash groups slash painter, marketing mastermind in the U S facebook dot com forward slash groups slash painter, marketing mastermind there.

You can ask Jason questions directly by tagging him with your question, Jason, I love the in person podcast episodes. We do, man, me as well partially because you don’t have your awesome studio. It levels the playing field, right? We have the same studio now. You know, you are awesome, man. I tell you, by the way, what an amazing uh session your your talk was. I appreciate that it wasn’t a talk, it wasn’t talk, it was an educational seminar that you gave. Appreciate. That was wonderful. And I want to thank you on behalf of all the painters out there, man.

That’s so nice. Thank you, Jason. Yeah, I went to your talk today and you had me uh just about crying. So I had to leave, had to leave. Thankfully, the trade show was Occurring within 15 minutes, but your talk was unbelievable. So I appreciate that. Thank you. I was honored to have you there. Yeah, absolutely, man. So we are talking about marketing. You are a, a sales and marketing guru. You enjoy that stuff. You, you really uh invested heavily into learning how to do it. Um excelling at it.

I want to, to really dive into how you’ve marketed Phillips home improvements and to see the growth that you’ve seen. Well, you know, it’s marketing, the has is always evolving, the maybe the the methods or the media is evolving, but the concepts are the same, the concepts are still the same and you know, there’s some, there’s a lot of different marketing frameworks if you will and uh those, those really don’t change, you know. So back in the day when I really didn’t have any, when I didn’t have any money, all my marketing was my own efforts and uh those efforts still work.

And in today’s world, it’s uh it’s, it’s as you even spoke to, you know, pay per click costs going through the roof, it’s not scaling with, with inflation, right? And, and I bet, I bet closing rates aren’t scaling with it either. So, so what happens is when things get tight? Uh and if people are low on leads, the first thing they turn to is is turning their credit card over to Google or to Facebook, right? And uh the the real work of marketing, I want to say the real work.

But, but you can either harvest leads or you can go make plant seeds and, and grow those. And for instance, nobody likes to do canvassing. I’ve met a few people who like canvassing and that’s the way I started. My company was canvassing was literally knocking on doors. And uh was it fun? No, I didn’t like it. Was it effective? Yes. How about this? Every single, every I knocked on my first day in business, I knocked on like 400 like almost 300 doors and, and, and uh I made four appointments.

I ended up selling all four of those appointments, three of them that evening and one on Monday and not a single one of them were talking to another painter. Wow, those are like exclusive leads, right? That’s some pretty good roo. I right there. People don’t like to do that because they, well, you know, they don’t like people knocking on your doors anymore. Nobody likes, nobody likes to have people knocking on their doors anymore. Okay. Nobody really likes telemarketing either. Why do people do it? Why would people do telemarketing because it works if you hit them at the moment of need, you know, people are, people live busy lives and I’ll tell you a quick little story.

A number of years ago, I wanted a pool cover. I wanted a pool cover to, uh, keep the leaves out of my pool in the fall because it is terrible if you got a pool and you got a bunch of trees around the pool and leaves all fall off in like two days and fall and boom. And you’re in, you’re in Homeowner Hill for a while. So, uh, so I wanted one of those nets, those covers to keep the, keep the leaves out. Well, well, I called and got a couple of quotes. Okay.

And this is actually this is a sales follow up story but it, but it relates to marketing And I got three quotes on these, not a single person followed up with me. I was ready to buy, but I had other things on my mind and I kept thinking, I’m gonna get around to it. I’m gonna get around to it. Saturday. I need to, I need to call these people follow these people on Saturday. Saturday comes, kids have games, recitals, whatever birthdays and it literally was a whole year. Okay.

People live busy lives okay. And how many people, how many homeowners have a need, but they’re not actually actively seeking and, and you can interrupt them, we can interrupt them with a door knock, you can interrupt them with, with a phone call. There’s all kinds of ways you can interrupt them. Gosh, there’s people that set up booths at, at restaurants and they get all their leads by just setting up a booth outside the restaurant, entertaining the kids while the parents are, are waiting in line for hours to, you know, a lot of restaurants.

I hate waiting in line for restaurants. But, but, you know, if you want to go to a good restaurant and you’re a busy area, you might have to wait in line for an hour. And so they’ve got booze and, and the, the way the various ways that people marketing effectively. So it’s one thing to be a marketer in my mind, a marketer goes and makes leads, finds a need and, and exposes that, that need to the, to the homeowner to the prospect and, and then, uh, not your sales team can take it further.

So anyways when you were, and you might not remember. It sounds like the stories a while ago. But when you were shopping for that pool cover, do you remember how you called those three companies? Did you find them online? Do you remember what your process was to actually find them to request the quote? All three of the ones I got, I got offline offline through print media. Okay. So it applies, right? So this is still print media is dead. No, no, print media is dead. So I can’t use anymore.

No, no, it’s dead online offline. So they might have been doing it or another company might have been doing it right. So they paid though, they paid to get you as a lead because they gave you print media, you called them. But you were a bad lead. You’re a bum lead. Your what we here, man, that, that lead was no good. You were ready to buy. Nobody followed up with the, all they had to do is pick up the phone you bought from them instead and you went another year, the least following your pool, you had to deal with it.

There was a pain point that didn’t get solved because you just didn’t get around to it. But you were a bum lead, I think right there is just unbelievable. Like coming at it from the perspective of the lead. That’s what happens. Absolutely right. You know, we, it’s leads. I look, I look at it like we’re gonna go, we’re gonna go to the ocean and we’re gonna dip a bucket in the ocean and we’re going to try to go carry it to the hole and make a lake and there’s, there’s all of these holes in the bucket and all those drops of water that leak out of that bucket.

Those are the leads that leak out from, from, you know, from the front end to the back end of your company. You know, we talk about lead generation and honestly, not honestly, but just frankly, the best leads that my company has are the leads that we already have. Yeah, period. If I look at the R O I and you know, if, if a lot of guys have, you know, customer activation reactivation campaigns, right? Okay. So, uh if I, if I spend two hours calling or one of the people spend two hours calling and I think about to measure the amount of labor, fully loaded labor and benefits it takes and any incentives that might give them for setting an appointment.

The and then the appointment, the cancelation rate or the issue rate of that appointment and the clothes sale rate and the average sale. Our very best leads are old leads of people that have higher hired us years ago. Those are very best leads and um our second very best leads Or this doesn’t sound like marketing does it, it’s not getting fresh leads but it’s mining the leads. I’ve been in business for, I’ve been in business for almost 26 years. We literally have like over 50,000 clients and whether you’ve got 1503,000 or 50, this concept is true.

Those people already trusted you and they, they, you know, painting doesn’t last forever. Did you paint every painted surface, interior and exterior of their home with, with forever paint forever with the forever color guarantee that, that you’ll, the styles will never change. No styles change, pets where things out sprinkler systems, where things out things get scratched up. And so people have additional need. So why not call them later and say, hey, by the way, we’re doing X Y Z, give them an offer or just stay in touch with them, right?

And so our very best leads are those now, uh our second best leads, our second best leads are still not the fresh leads that, that, that you provide. When are we gonna get to the fresh leads? We’re gonna talk about that. we’re going to talk about because it’s all important, right? But we’ve got these areas of our business that are ignored because they’re because they’re, they’re, they’re cloaked in this word called work. We’re busy again who, who likes to make phone calls. Not many people, some people, but most people don’t want to pick up the phone.

And by the way, the first door you knock on is the hardest one. The first phone call you make is the hardest one after that, it’s easy you get in a groove. Don’t boom, boom, boom, you’re going. But when, when uh if one of our sales people, we call them project consultants were not really there to sell something we’re there to evaluate anyway, that’s another story. But, but when one of our project consultants uh goes out and they give a price, you know, they evaluate how we can do it, they give a presentation, they give a price and they don’t sell the project.

The customer doesn’t buy um our very best leads are reissued, calling those people that didn’t buy and re engaging with them and sending someone else back out there. And because here’s what’s happened again, it’s the leap. The salesperson knows their, their, their tire kickers, their price shoppers, they’re not interested all because that salesperson didn’t sell it so high percentage of the time. It’s not that the customer wasn’t ready. It’s, or the prospect if you will at this point, it’s that you didn’t give them a reason to buy.

You didn’t build rapport. Maybe, maybe you didn’t listen, maybe you didn’t, maybe they didn’t like you because you were a male or a female or they didn’t, you know, you were big and scary, whatever it was, or maybe it just was a bad time for them at that moment that maybe they were having a bad day, maybe failed to build value, maybe failed to build trust all of these little things. But if we can call them And get back in their home and they’re going to give us another 90 minutes to meet with them or 60-90 minutes. Wow.

Those have our second highest closing rate and our second highest net sale per lead issued. So let’s just get that out of the way. Okay. That’s, those are ignored. I ignored those for a long, long time. I did. I was in this game, man. I’m constantly out there. Oh, I’m new leads. Freshly. It’s freshly. It’s freshly and the only marketing my old customers got was being treated just like a freshly and so we were constantly putting things in their mailbox and they saw us everywhere. Okay. So there was that branding, I guess if you will, that went along with it.

So they saw us all the time but directly engaging them. We weren’t, we weren’t doing it for many, many years and we do that now and it’s a great stream of revenue for our company. When you do that, you already paid for that lead, you already paid for that lead. You’re just, you’re just recycling it and having another, I’m not a wrestling fan but you, everybody knows the concept. Tag team wrestling, you’re in there, you’re getting beaten, you reach over to the side, you tag your friend and he hops in your place and takes over that works because, you know, you can’t click with everybody and maybe one of your teammates can, maybe the manager can write.

And, uh, a lot of times they get on the phone and, uh, our call center agents will get on the phone with the homeowner and we’ll get the real reason they didn’t buy and it may be, it may be about the price. But if it’s about the price, if they say it’s about the price, it’s not really about the price, it’s about the value, we’re kind of getting over into the sales end of it. Okay. But, but now now if we come back. Now, let’s go to this fresh lead addiction.

We just, we want to keep, you know, swiping and buying and feeding the hungry machine that, that wants to, uh, that wants to sit between us and our prospective client, our future client or existing client. Let’s call them Google Home Advisor, Angie’s List. I mean, we’re out there, you know, doing SC, oh, well, guess what they’re doing S C 02 and, and they want to go get our leads and then charge us for them and sell them to umpteen people out there. Right. And, and a lot of people don’t realize that.

Yeah, they don’t realize that right there playing the same game so they can sell you the same lead. Exactly. So, uh you know, maybe you can beat them at their game. Maybe you can’t, but I would probably say they write the algorithm and they probably know how those ghouls. Yeah. Yeah, they know what they’re doing, right. So, I wanna Jason, I want to, I want to kind of lean in. So you’re really big in systems, really big in processes. You have this style and I always sidetrack you because I’m always, always get sucked in by the stuff you’re talking about and you, I’m fascinated by this process that I’m sure you have of when a lead hasn’t converted. Right?

So you’ve gone out, you provided the estimate they haven’t converted and then you have a call center agent. Called them and figure out what the problem was that you have, you know, some of you try to schedule a second and how long do you wait, you know, before you kind of move forward with that. And then do you? Well, let me, let me start. I got a few questions. How long do you wait? What’s that kind of process? We typically wait about two days. Okay. So two day and then you’re gonna follow up with them, basically say, hey, you know what’s going on and then if they’re not ready to move forward, you’re gonna kind of try to figure out why.

So we expect our project consultant to follow up with them that evening. Okay? And again, the next day, regardless of what they said on the phone with me last week, call, we’d like them to call and follow up with the text if they can’t get them. And uh just, hey, just thinking about you every one to see if you have any questions or maybe we have an additional idea for them. We didn’t think about just trying to create another touch point of value to them, right? And uh you know, when we don’t ever want to use the F word, I’m just, I’m just following up with you.

See if you made a decision just following up, did you make a decision? I just wonder if I lost, you know, zero value added just like, hey, I want to apply a little pressure on you right now. Yeah, exactly. So, uh, anyways, yeah, we, we wait a couple days and we just give him a customer service call. That’s all it is. And it goes something like this. Um, hi Brandon. Hey, Brandon, it’s Jason with Phillips Home Improvements. I’m the customer service department. I’m just following up. It looks like it looks like we had David out to meet with you on Monday about five p.m. to take a look at your exterior painting and just want to make sure it was David on time. Great. He was, was, was he wearing, was he wearing his, his company uniform? Yeah. Did he, did he, was he courteous? Did he, did he answer all of your questions? How much time did he spend with you? Okay, great. And by this time if David did a good job, we’re getting all kinds of compliments on David. They’re complimenting him left and right now they may say no, he was late now we know he didn’t sell it, right?

Okay. But so many times. Yeah, he was great. He was great. He was great. Okay. Well, then we, you know, say, well, wow, that’s all. Thank you so much for your feedback. Well, before I let you go, um I don’t show that you placed an order with us. Can I ask why now you’re gonna get the reason chasing this stuff is smooth man. Okay. This stuff is good. And so they’re, they’re gonna say, well, I really, really like you guys, but the price was too high. Oh, wow.

Was this something you’re still looking to do? And I’m still looking to do in the next couple of months? Yeah. Really? Okay. Wow. That doesn’t give us much time during your business can make a suggestion. Brandon, what, why don’t, why don’t you grab your calendar? Let me, let me, let me send A J out AJ is our one of our field managers. If there’s anybody here that can make sure that we gave you the very best price that we could, it would be him. Are you available tomorrow at 4:00 PM?

Let’s get age. So then we get a J out there. He takes a look at it and maybe we accidentally over scoped it or, or maybe there’s no good reason that the other guy didn’t close the deal. Maybe it was just something they didn’t click. You can’t click with everybody. You just can’t click with everybody no matter how good of a sales person you are. And So, uh so often, you know, we, we, we gave him an $8,1003 proposal and AJ will come back with a $10,000 contract. Are you kidding?

Sometimes he comes back with a $7000 contract more. Yeah, all the time. Yeah. And often, you know, at the same time, sometimes they, he pairs the scope of work back for them. So, yeah, people like, but, but, but here’s the deal AJ is following a system. Yeah, everything is pre planned, pre thought the way we’re going to, you know, I mean, look, you serve the country, right? They, you guys are taught to think about and you’re trained on all these different options that could happen out on the battlefield.

You pre plan what you’re gonna do, right? Why not pre plan, what we’re gonna do? You go out to a sales call and what you’re going to hear the same things, prices too high. You need to think on it. I need to talk to my spouse and getting other estimates. Okay? Those are over and over and over. Why not have a plan for dealing with those? And it’s not like pressuring the customer. If you ever pressure the customer, if they feel rather not, you pressure them. If they ever feel pressured, it’s bad.

It’s bad. But, but finding out, you know, why? Okay. How about if you build some trust and rapport with them? You can ask some questions like, hey, I gotta talk to my husband. Um, well, hey, great. How about, hey, I’ve got an idea. I’m here today. You’re here. Could we maybe get him on the phone? Try that or? Hey, what time, what time does he normally come home? You know what, I’m gonna be back in the area talking to Miss Jones over here and what, why don’t, uh, why don’t I circle back by about seven p.m.

That way I can answer all your questions all at once. Yeah. Simple, simple things like that when you, you approach it from this consultative stance, right? So you’re doing, you’re doing a consultative selling relationship based selling and you’re coming at it from the needs of the homeowner, which is going to make them a lot more amenable to working with you because you’re coming at it from a collaborative standpoint, right? That’s why you don’t call them estimate. You’re not providing estimates, you’re, you know, you’re actually consulting with them and giving them the price of what you can do, right?

What makes sense for the work? So you’re, you’re kind of, you’re teaming up with them, you know, hey, I’m gonna come give you an estimate and I’m gonna push you to close the deal. I’m gonna come explore the project and we’re gonna see what we can do and if there’s a fit here, we’re gonna kind of walk you through what our process is. Absolutely. That’s exactly what we do and your follow up. So I don’t think I’ve ever heard like in any business a follow up like what you just did.

So calling, they’re not, they haven’t paid you any money, they’re not your customer right there, there a lead or an s, you know, a prospective customer at this point and you’re calling and basically doing a, almost like doing a quality control. You’re, you’re like, hey, hey, how was the experience? You only get that stuff afterwards. If you’re lucky, it’s the best companies, you know, they service you and the best ones, the few ones will call, hey, I just want to follow up and, you know, installed that h except how to go was on time.

Or are you happy with this? Basically, nobody even does that. You guys do it before you’ve even done anything. Look, those leads are the lifeblood of my company. They’re the lifeblood of your company, of everybody’s company and they cost their precious, they are precious and expensive and they’re like eggs in a basket. Don’t drop it. And, and I want to know that my lead was handled well and we have a process like if, if you’re gonna be late to your appointment, you’re supposed to call the office and, and we may get someone else to run that lead who’s closer or we may call that we may call the homeowner and talk to them and tell them to run a few minutes behind whatever it is every now and then that customer service calling him.

Yeah, he was 15 minutes late. He was 20 minutes late and like, oh, hey, did, let me see, did he call? And no, he never called in. Why didn’t he follow the process? So now we have a conversation that’s passed along to his manager and then we have a conversation with manager has a conversation about, hey, that’s not. And it’s like a labyrinth of systems. Yeah, you’re, you’re not gonna mishandle my leads and keep getting my leads. That would be, that would be bad management. Some great accountability there too.

So, yeah. Well, like, salespeople are awesome and at what they do, but they, they don’t understand what it takes to get leads unless, unless they’re those type of guys and some companies, salespeople have to bring their own leads. They all have to do canvassing. There are those guys out there that’s not typical for the painting industry. And, and so really if, if your, your only control you have over sales people is sitting on the bench not giving them a lead. You know what, I’m gonna give that lead to this next guy. Yeah.

And I mean, it sounds cold and it’s not that okay. But, but really we, they have to know I need to follow a process. I need to value this lead because that lead is that sales person needs to understand that lead is their lifeblood. Yeah. So we’re, we’re doing this 66 episode series, right? It’s the biggest series that the Payment Can Master. My podcast has ever done. Now, you got me, we’re gonna have a conversation about a potential. You’ve got me wanting to do this some kind of kind of role play thing.

I feel like every time I dive in, I just realized I’m just scratching the surface of what you have going on. Your processes are pretty wild man. Pretty unbelievable. Well, you know, when I built my initial processes for my company, they were built for me and when I tried to hand them off to others, it was like this very complicated thing that people couldn’t use and couldn’t fix. And I had to simplify things. I really had to simplify things and I, I’ve had a lot of help and I need, I need to be able to hand that process off and, you know, painters like we know, hey, here’s how we’re gonna, we’re gonna schedule our projects here.

So we’re gonna prep them all of those house, we’re gonna, you know, do a quality control. But system izing, the way your leads are handled, the way you get leads is because marketing is expensive. Now, I, I made a commitment. I, I studied marketing in high school. Okay. I’m a college dropout by the way, but I’ve always been attracted to marketing. And uh so From day one in my company, I allotted A budget to spend on marketing on advertising from day one. And a lot of, a lot of guys don’t do that And therefore they don’t develop some skills for marketing because you need a lot of stuff you’re gonna learn by trial and error and wasting money.

And then you, you get to this point and you don’t really like you want me to take 10% of my revenue and spend it on trying to get leads that may not pan out total mindset. Tough. Right. And maybe, maybe it’s gonna be hard to give that money up. Maybe you, maybe you need that money to pay bills because you moved into a bigger house and maybe you haven’t really built your company to run a certain way because you haven’t been spending anything on marketing. So we’ve got all kinds of sloppiness in your operations.

That’s right. And I mean, you know, hey, we got last year, like 42% of our business was from, people have already done business with or referrals, but you can’t count on that. I mean, people move away. You know, if you really like you were just saying, like you were saying this morning, if you want to grow your business, you’ve gotta invest in marketing. There’s a reason why people invest in marketing. And how about this, you know, during the, during the, the quote recessions or the downturns. The first thing that companies stop spending money on is marketing. Okay.

Well, here’s, here’s my thinking, I’m gonna use this time to gobble up market share when you get lazy, when you close the doors. Okay, and throw your hands up. I’m gonna come in and I’m gonna grab some market share because that’s when it’s the cheapest to buy it is. Yeah, I mean, all this stuff works on an auction process. You know, everyone pulls out you investing into, you gain that ground. It’s almost like investing in the stock market. You don’t want to be doing what everyone’s doing and follow whatever is, that’s how you don’t make any money. Right.

That’s why most painters don’t make any money because they’re following everything. Everybody’s been doing. Follow the herd. That’s what the herds not doing that. Well, when you actually look at how the herd is doing, you know, they got the brush in their hand, they’re not really making that much money. You go, you go talk to some other industries and the painters uh typically you’re in a sad state and that hurts me to say that because you know that the painting business is not painting itself because I don’t have, I’m not a painter, never painted, but that painting business is my business.

But also I do, I do some other things in addition to painting, right? So I’m exposed to a lot of other industries that operate on a much more sophisticated level. And so I want to see and I’m so excited about what the PC is doing and, and leveling up the skills and the expertise and professionalism of the painting industry. And I, that’s something that when I, that was one of the things I set out to do when I started my business was to, was to uh raise the bar in my little part of the world for that.

So, well, you’re definitely doing your part. I know that this Expo, a lot, a lot of people want to come to Expo who for whatever reason can, right? They can or they don’t, it doesn’t work out whatever happens. And I, you know, at this expo, you’ve been making a very concerted effort to do live videos, to do feedback on the day session and essentially broadcasting some of the value out to people who couldn’t be here. So I think that is, that’s an amazing thing and I see a lot of people responding to that online.

So I think you’re, you’re obviously being a great ambassador for the P C A man. I just, I feel the pain. I felt the pain and I want, I want to see others. Uh You know, why does everybody have to start digging themselves out of them, out of the quicksand? Why can’t they start on solid ground? Why can’t they stand on my shoulders or the shoulders of other people and even retire? That’s, that’s what I really want because uh my goal in life is not to run a business.

My goal, my goal in life is to raise leaders is to build leaders and lead and power and inspire people to be leaders and especially painting contractors because that’s where, that’s where I came from and, and to see them become leaders in their business leaders, of their team’s leaders in their families and accomplished more than they’ve accomplished before. Yeah. Yeah. Your, your talk today was very, very impactful, very impactful. So one of the, one of the things I like that you mentioned is, is you kind of, you’re, you’re not just in painting, right?

You’re primarily painting, but you see these other home service industries, plumbing, roofing. And a lot of times there a bit farther ahead in terms of the marketing, in terms of the mindset, I mean, would you recommend that maybe some painting company owners kind of look to some of these industries? I mean, maybe even attend a trade show. What’s your thought on something like that? I mean, you could, you could definitely, you could definitely do that. You know, I feel like, um, well, everybody needs to be uh a student and a teacher of follower and a leader.

And so it’s great to look, look at leaders within our industry. But let’s look at maybe other other home service providers that are, that are outside of painting what’s going on in their realm. They’re the same customer, what do they do? And you know, at the end of the day, the, the, uh we have in our market, these, these magazines, um, we call them coupon books and maybe they have deals for pizza and they have deals for garage doors and just kind of maybe like val pack, which is nicer. Okay.

And uh I’m not competing against the other painters necessarily in there. I’m competing against every single person, every single, every single ad in there that’s wanting the dollars. That, that what I, what I call my home owners have to spend the remodelers. Okay. The patio, the outdoor kitchen, the pool, the window screens, the stamped concrete. Those are all my competitors. And if, if, if they’re better at marketing then we are, they’re gonna get more of the work. That’s just true because, you know, people, they like, they get it, hey, we need to uh I want to do something, wanna wanna wanna renew the home or, or whatever it is.

Granted, if they got peeling paint, rotten wood, whatever they know specifically they need painting. So many times people just want to refresh and renew their home and bring new life to it. And now they’re looking, there’s window shopping for everything that they can spend money on. Just you blow my mind, man. You say things that people don’t say, you know, people don’t think that they’re competing against other industries but you are, they’re not gonna go, probably do all these things at the same time, probably quite a few years between these different things.

So, yeah, the, the itch, one of the things I really like that you’re doing and I kind of keep learning more and more as we have these podcast interviews and, and you kinda, I feel like you almost don’t even know how good they are sometimes because you say it and then I’m like, what, what do you mean you got porch to, what does that mean? And then we go down this 15 minute rabbit hole. Like Jason, I have done like 1003 interview. Never have it. Has, has anyone said anything like this?

But you have a very fundamental understanding of the psychology of people, right? And I know you’re a behavioral, what is the title? Human behavior consultant? Yeah. Okay. Human behavior. So, you’re actually like a registered black belt in this stuff, you know what you’re doing? This stuff from, from a guy who is in marketing and sales, it’s I think if you don’t have some fundamental understanding marketing sales, you don’t really, you kind of can’t see beneath the surface of what you’re doing. Like the stuff you’re doing is magic, how you’re approaching it is very impressive.

And I think you, you kind of like, hey, you need to understand this stuff because the framework that the human psychology, the way that people need to be treated that doesn’t change, maybe tiktok comes, maybe whoever, whatever comes, you know, maybe thinks PPC costs raise, but how people, people don’t really change. So let’s, let’s, let’s talk about that for a minute. That’s your right. Uh One of the basics in marketing is, is as the Ada framework A I D A and, and a stands for attention. So let’s just say take for instance, because I know I know a lot of painters do val pack. Okay.

Um Let’s just okay in that rare case, when the, when the homeowner actually opens the valve pack, okay. And they’re quickly flipping through all of those pieces, those pages. The first thing your ad needs to do is just simply make them stop, stop the scroll, stop the flip. And it’s the same thing on social media. The scroll, it’s gonna be a scroll stopper page flipper. If you do a home shows, their feet need to stop walking, you need to get their attention. Okay. So that’s the first thing your ad needs to just simply get someone’s attention.

And uh a lot of ads are turbo at that and you know, and I’m not saying we’re the best at it either. Okay? But I know that that’s what we need to do is I need to grab their attention because you think most ads are just a little too boring. Well, so many times, um, graphic designers, God bless them. They want to make a pretty ad. Okay? I want to make an ad that’s different because no matter how pretty it is, if it’s all the same, it’s gonna become white noise when you’re flipping through or when you’re scrolling and it needs to be different.

I wanna, I wanna quickly. So I met Brandon Lewis actually, I’ve never met him. Brandon’s a great guy man. He’s got some good stuff going. Yeah, so I met him, talked with him for a bit at this expo. He had included, you see that envelope that he included in the swag bag. So the PC expo swag there was a like a yellow envelope it said in red opened immediately. I thought it’s from the P C A. I thought man there’s probably some secret event or you know, like if I don’t open this, I’m like, I’m gonna mess this Expo up, opened it, you know, it’s about his program was like that was really, really good.

That nail that a So okay. So what, what he, what he did is something was, was different. He cued in on something because you thought it was an authority. It, I thought it says open immediately. I have to open. I’m gonna give you guys a golden nugget resource, a bucket of gold here. If you have, if you want, if you want to learn about marketing and sales, go get this book called Influence The Psychology of Persuasion by Dr Robert Baldini. Okay. It is amazing. And I’ve read it so many times and uh I’m not gonna go into what all that book is about.

Just read that book once and then hit me up on, hit me up on Facebook and chat with me about it. Okay. It’s, it’s amazing. I love it. Yeah, he’s uh that was very impressive. So you got a I D A. So A is attention? What is I interest? Interest? So, oh yeah, something interesting and what we tend to put on our ads is our company. Name us about you. Right. That’s what they care about. Yeah, it’s just about you. Yeah, exactly. And you know, which I think, I think brand, I think, I think having a consistent brand is vital.

I hope you’re not spending any money on branding in this business, by the way, not Brandon branding. I hope you’re not spending money with this guy. Okay. But, but branding in our business should come through uh direct response marketing. They see it again and again and again and they’re just, and your brand is building in. So, so they, they’ve got to be drawn into your ad. Maybe that’s through words, maybe that’s through, through photos. Okay? Online. Maybe it’s through video, right? Um And then so, oh and then that next thought they need to have that.

So it’s a for attention, I for interest d for desire. Oh, I want that. They’ve got 11 what’s in that ad? So you gotta, they might want it. But if you can’t get them to stop and look at your ad, they’re never gonna even know it exists. They’re just gonna keep flipping, right? So the first thing is stop flipping or get them to stop flipping. And now at the same time, your ad needs to kind of deliver on the promise, ads, ads, advertisements that don’t deliver on the promise they get your attention but don’t deliver what you expected or called Clickbait.

We all know what Clickbait is right? So, so then the last piece is action. So, oh, I want that honey, let’s budget this for next year. Let’s put this in the drawer, let’s bookmark this, let’s email this link to ourselves. Okay. Action. And you need to give them a reason why they need to call now instead of waiting. And so let’s let’s be real in our business with what we do. Is there ever gonna be a cheaper time when it costs less for them to paint their house?

I mean, it’s Sherwin Williams lowering prices year over year. His labor prices going down year over year and is the condition of their home getting any better year over year. It’s not. So give them a reason, It’s gonna cause most 90% of the time it’s gonna cost them more money to wait because the, the expenses of us delivering goes up increases in addition to inflation and the condition of their home, the paint peels more, it oxidizes more, the wood rots more. All of that stuff gets worse. So that gap gets more and more.

We need to give people a reason. It’s I liken this to taking care of your teeth. You can, you can go to the dentist and have all those little things taken care of. A matter of fact, even if you’ve got a cavity, if it’s just a little shallow cavity, it doesn’t even, hardly hurt to get it fixed. But once you wait, you need a root canal. Ain’t nobody enjoy that. Okay. So that’s why dentists are constantly pushing you to, you know, to get back in there. Right?

So it’s the same thing with, with your home again. We love, I mean, hey, guys that do root canals. I mean, those are big tickets for them. We love to come in and replace all your sighting because you didn’t take care of it. It’s rotting, it’s costing a lot of money. But you know, there’s, I would rather help you maintain your house as well. So yeah, this A I D A framework, you know, just kind of wanna lay out how it works with a Facebook ad. And then I want to, I want to really dive into, I guess how you do it, you know, with, with like about pack type pack.

I know you’re not using backpack but the Facebook ad, you know, the attention is, is the creative, right? Whether it’s the image video, whatever you’re using, something’s gotta, you know, we have very short attention span when we’re scrolling. It’s kind of absurd. Actually, we gotta stop, you gotta get that, that trigger happy thumb to stop. And then the interest is the headline. So some, some headlines gotta be whether it’s creative, whatever it’s gotta, it’s gotta interest enough to now start reading a lot of effort. A lot of effort when you just want to keep scrolling to actually start reading text right?

Then the text has got to speak to a pain, desire, whatever, right? Create that desire. Um And then the action is on Facebook. A lot of companies will do it through some, you know, which sometimes is artificial, but a 15% 236% this month or whatever it is, write some or maybe you sell on value. Maybe it’s a book, a book of all interior and we’ll do X Y or Z in addition or free touch up through life or whatever you’re doing. Um How do you guys approach that with print?

Okay. So What I like to do what I’ve, what I’ve done for 220 years, I don’t actually personally do this much anymore. But flip, here’s a magazine, a publication, I wanna see several issues. I want to flip through, I wanna feel it. I wanna see what types of ads are in there. What, before you’re gonna touch it. If possible. Yeah. If possible, flip through there and see what, what other companies are in there. Of course, of course, I want to know the demographics, the distribution. I want to know all that stuff, right.

The cost per 210 all that. But look at what types of ads are in there and I, maybe all those ads are beautifully creative ads, but I don’t want my ad to blend in with theirs. And if I just let their graphic designer do that, they’re just gonna make an ad that blends in with everybody else is a lot of ads are, are too busy. There’s a, there’s a term in, in marketing and creating ad copy called White Space and some, some let’s just take, for instance, when it sticks out in my mind is the company A D T that does alarms.

They’re pretty much a national company, right? Sometimes they’re ad literally would be nothing but a white page with a picture of an alarm keypad right in the middle of the page. So simple, so simple and then some some contact info at the bottom, right? Or maybe maybe uh that that’s a stopper because you get all these busy ads with photos and crushes and all of a sudden there’s this clean page and just boom, it’s kind of refreshing. I mean, there’s a reason why, why uh Apple and Google and Facebook have very simple logos with very simple colors and it’s, it’s simple to remember, but that same concept now at the same time, if you had all of these ads that were just like that A D T add these simple with tons of whitespace.

Well, if they’re zigging, you should probably zag and that’s what we wanna do is we wanna, when we do marketing or not just market anything we want to play with the big boys. What are the big boys doing? Let’s go copy the big boys here. Well, then you’re just gonna blend in. I don’t wanna blend in, I want to stand out. It can be risky. It could be a complete failure flop. But so you, you have to take risks with your marketing. You know, once you get your marketing dialed in, you should have a certain percentage of your budget.

You know, for us it’s about 210% of money that we’re always playing with. That’s 2150% of your revenue. No, no, of our marketing budget. I was like that is a lot of money. Okay. But, but we’re playing some, some stuff we lock in for a year. Okay. And other things, we we are constantly looking at our lead source performance report and seeing, you know, what leads are coming in. How many of those are we getting set to appointments? How many of those appointments are actually uh getting issued to a salesperson?

They don’t cancel right, right away. How many of those we actually get to meet with the customer or the prospect, how many of those we actually give them a price and then how many of them we sell and how much we sell. So we have this whole funnel and we met, we can measure that very easily by, by um type, you know, whether it’s, you know, paper click, whether it’s print magazines, whether it’s, you know, business directories, whether it is or I can drill down to okay Facebook and, or, you know, Google or in some people’s cases val pack and of course, when you’re dealing with offline marketing, it’s uh uh lead attribution to its source, to knowing what dollars generated that lead on offline marketing is not super easy. Okay.

That’s, that is the beauty of digital, you know, you know, very quickly that it’s working, you can very quickly modify it, which most people don’t, they just set it and forget it. And again, let that, let that automatic payment just keep coming out, coming out, right. Just sucking all your profits away. But, And hey, by the way, I mean, that’s what a lot of SCO and digital marketing companies do. They don’t really manage your campaign. They spend like, I spend like 2100 minutes making an executive overview, report to you to, to present to you on zoom or something to show you that they’re doing their job and they’re going to just say, oh yeah, well, it’s tight.

I mean, you know, you just need to up your budget, need to up your budget. You got up your budget. That’s always right. Yeah, it’s just like the material vendors buy more pain. Yeah, that’s in their best interest. So anyways, it’s, yeah, so let’s, let’s get into, I know before we started this, we’re kind of talking about the different types of lead source, the quality. I know you, you kind of um are of the mindset and I am in complete agreement that people don’t necessarily want to want to put in the effort to really learn and own their marketing.

You showed me a picture of a meme of uh a line, a line going for Hebei leads and that line is, is just stacked, learn marketing or nobody. It’s like you’re at the D M V trying to renew your driver’s license. So picture your, your, there’s this counter and there’s a glass window and there’s two lines, right? And uh and my friend Tony posted this and he’s got one long line and the sign above the above the window, like like the ticket booth, you know, says, says by leads and then the other line is basically empty with the sign above the window that says learn to generate leads.

And so it’s just, it’s, it’s so it’s so true. We all just want the immediate, you know, don’t put in the work to actually learn it on and we just want the result. That’s right. And, and okay, but let’s, but let’s be real okay. Marketing is uh can be very complex, it can be daunting, it can be scary. It really can’t. But you don’t have to be an expert in everything in marketing. I think you should recommend a well rounded marketing program that doesn’t mean you have to do everything, but you should at least have several channels going, you know, and of course all your free channels, you know, your, your Google business profile, your Facebook, your website, not, not necessarily totally free, but, but and, and have your vehicles branded your yard signs, those that’s just like base level stuff.

Make that, make that stuff great. Okay, make that stuff great. But, but hire someone that you can trust that will, that will show you an R O I and, um, you know, there’s, I, I’m constantly under a barrage of, of, you know, hey, we digital marketing people contacting me or we can, you know, we can do leads or we’ll just pay for the leads, whatever it is, you know, and I’m at the, I’m at the point quite frankly, I just tell them like, look, okay, tell you, why don’t you just give me 1503 leads if you think your leads are that good.

Give me 2150 leads and I will follow up on them with my best in class system and if your leads are pretty good, I’ll sign up with you and we’ll go and if they’re that good, I’ll keep spending because trust me, I can hire and train your salespeople. Did people take you up on it? So, every now and then, but most, but most of the time, most of the time they won’t. Yeah. Oh, no, I can’t, I can’t do it. Okay. Thank you. Click. Well, at least you give them the chance to do that.

So, and you know, we’ve, we’ve got, for instance, you know, a lot of print magazine I don’t want to pay in print. If you’re just buying you know, print, it’s just like buying impressions, impressions are worthless. They’re worthless. Okay. Don’t, please don’t ever pay for impressions and, and, uh, we have some people back home. We actually, uh, it’s better than paying for impressions in print. We pay them for the phone calls we get. Okay. So some, sometimes some people we pay for only leads that come through phone calls.

So we can, well, this was a telemarketer. We can cancel that one out. But some of them, the lead price, if the call price is low enough, we’ll just pay them for everything and, and, and work it. But that’s better than paying for impressions. Yeah. Now what’s even better is you can get someone to actually just uh pay for performance where, hey, if I sell it, I’m gonna give you a percentage of it. But that, that takes a deeper level of trust that they need to trust you as well.

And then the upside for them needs to be really high because they really do need to make an investment to try to generate leads for you, whether it’s print or digital or whatever, it’s a bit of a partnership. But it sure is, it’s like a commission. It sure is a lot easier to share a larger proportion of that when you’re only sharing it when it’s working. So, yeah, it makes sense. So I know one of the things that, that your um passionate about, I’m certainly passionate about it is the follow up, right.

Not using the F word, but when leads come in, I know a lot of times, uh, painting company owners don’t always really handle that lead in the best way. Right. What are your thoughts on kind of the best way again? I know you’ve walked through the process, but let’s say you actually haven’t gotten to the point where you said an estimate yet, but a lead has come through. What do you do? You know, do you call them? And then they don’t answer and then you at your lunch break or maybe at the end of the day or tomorrow, you’ll try them again.

They don’t answer, man. That was a bum lead. That lead sucked. Well, you need to look at that process. You can analyze that process. Who, who is actually following up on those leads? Is it you the business owner? Is it, is it your office admin? Is it maybe it’s your spouse? I don’t know. But, uh depending on the size of your company, you need to have someone dedicated to following up on those leads. And, um, you know, you, uh my call center, we, my first goal is that all leads, push directly into my CRM.

When they push directly into my CRM, they also push into another system that immediately sends a text message. And if they don’t engage with that text message, then it’ll send them an email. So you’ve got automation said. Oh, yes, absolutely. And at the same time, it also goes into our system where our outbound, outbound calling them. So we’re trying to get them however they want to respond, text, email, phone call, we’re after it. Okay. Think, think about, think about things like, you know, Angie’s List, they’re, they’re given that lead to like five guys, whatever it is, you know.

And okay and, and, and, and guess what, I’m gonna tell you this as far as lead aggregators, Angie is one of the better ones. Okay. There’s ones that are far worse. We spend a lot of money with Angie’s List and our, our lead to set rate is our, our set rate versus those leads. And I say set, set appointments, okay, is pretty low. Like someone just, you know, go to our website and fill out our form. Our set rate is almost 2100% on those. Right? But on these, uh, lead aggregator leads That, uh, it’s, it’s like hovers between 250 and 35% and that is with our best in class system back in the day.

It was, it was like, you know, 12, And, uh, sometimes you’re paying for those leads, sometimes you’re just paying per month. But at the end of the day, if you’re making all those phone calls, you’re paying people to try to set those appointments. But one of the things that it does is it puts you in an environment where, uh, you have to perform speed to lead is vital. People don’t understand that, you know, as contractors all the time. Well, you know, when a lead comes in, how quick are you getting back with them?

How, what percentage of time do they go to voicemail? They don’t know. You know, you can easily these days have a VoIP phone system that will tell you the percentage of time, that emails or that. Sorry, that that phone calls go to voicemail and aren’t answered. And if your phone isn’t answered at least 90% of the time you’ve got work to do your own phone really should be answered probably 95% of the time. And if you’re doing, if you’re doing local, local uh local search at local service ads, you know, you get that report, here’s how many phone calls you got, here’s how many were answered.

Here’s how many weren’t and pay attention to that stuff because you’re paying for those. And, and if you’re not, if you’re not responding to that, I’m pointing my ipad, my, you know, my web browser here or my email that, that, that report, I’m looking at it on my screen, not really looking at it, but thinking about looking at it here, you need to pay attention to that. So, well, normally, so the answer is, you know, how, how often you get back or how quickly do you get back?

Well, you know, we try to get back with them before the end of the day. Okay, before the end of the day, what do you think the next guy’s doing that’s out there, the hungry, the hungry painter on the ladder that doesn’t have work tomorrow. What do you think he’s doing with that lead? He’s got it going directly to his cell phone and he’s gonna stop whatever he’s doing and answer that call and he’s gonna go right over there right then and give them a price and sell that job and you don’t even get to meet with them.

That’s what’s going to happen. And then it was a quote unquote bad lead. It was a bad lead. So it’s, it’s, uh, if you can get good and following up on these lead aggregator leads, then you can, then, then you’re gonna be so much better with all of your other leads. So, you know, we measure speed to lead and I’m telling you your response rate on these, you need to be contacting these within minutes, not hours minutes. It’s gonna be that quick. Yeah, you, there’s some insane statistic.

It’s something like if, if you are back in touch with the Lee within five minutes, you are 21 times more likely to close it than, than past 15 minutes. It’s just, it’s absurd that there’s, there’s a, there’s a CRM called Market Sharp that, um, every year, uh, the, the owner would publish the, the statistics from the system of, of what the set rates were based on the response time of the leads. And literally the, the, the company that responded within a minute was 1003% more likely to get that appointment than the company responded four minutes later.

So a total of five minutes think about that. And, and there’s so many statistics that go with that. Most people, you know, once they get two or three appointments. Okay, we’re good. We got, we got, we got enough appointments. We don’t need more appointments. So now I’m not gonna answer your call because I already got three appointments. People are coming out. I want to meet with more than that stand up in this vicious cycle. It’s a race. Many of It’s a race. You’ve got to beat them to that, you’ve got to beat them to it and you gotta have automation.

If they’re coming through Facebook or there’s an email, there’s a web chat or whatever, you’re not gonna get there within 60 seconds if you haven’t automated it, not consistently. That’s right. Because, you know, we have, uh, in our call center. Well, they may already be on a phone call and that phone call, if they’re setting an appointment takes up to five or six minutes, it’s not okay to wait five or six minutes for us to call them back. So that’s why I have an automated system, you know, kind of helping us out. Yeah. Yeah.

With the phone obviously answer the phone. But any other channel they come through, you gotta hit them within 60 seconds to one of the things I do want to point out. I’m sure you’re on top of this. But it’s amazing how many, um, I guess nightmare scenarios we’ve encountered because we, we used tracking numbers, right, with every, every company where we’re tracking all this data and, and a lot of call centers are not good. A lot of call centers are somewhat horrific honestly and we listen to them and it’s, hey, you know, like 70% of your calls aren’t being answered, right?

Or do you know, like, hey, it, it takes on average 36 seconds for them to pick up the phone and when they do they’re actually pretty rude. Do you want to listen to some of these recordings? If you’re using a call center, you should be listening to your recordings. You better check it because odds are, it’s not great. Well, I can tell you what I speak for me. Just, this is for me. I’m not gonna outsource my call center. Yeah, I spend a lot of money on marketing.

I want someone representing my company that knows my geography that has the, uh, that sounds like they’re from my area again. Some people outsource their call center, especially maybe for after hours stuff or whatever. I get that. But as you can try to get that in house. But like you said, they need to be, they, here’s the deal call center. People are salespeople, they are selling an appointment, not for money, but they’re selling that client, that prospect that is worth waiting for you to get there. It’s about the value to meet with you for them.

And, but the reality is we act like we’re a government order taker or customer service line from the cable company. That’s how we have company are inbound calls, right? And it’s just, it’s not gonna work, it’s just not gonna work of all the call centers to. The one I was actually most impressed with was, was an Indian call center out of India. She had a faint accent, but she was super respectful, super professional. The ones that, I mean, quite frankly, the domestic ones, I don’t think I’ve ever heard one that was great.

It’s almost like they’re being inconvenienced. You know, it’s probably the way the compensation model works, whatever it is. It’s just, it’s a, it’s an inconvenience for them to answer half the time. They don’t seem like they know what company they’re answering for. It seems like they’re scrambling to figure out the name of the company. They’re like, this is horrific. I experienced that way back in the day. I get bit by it and anymore. Yeah, invest these leads. Like you said, these leads are expensive. Plus I’ve had in my call center, you know, I have, we do outbound calling like I was saying earlier calling.

And so we’ve got metrics on our board and I’m like, hey, if it’s, you know, if it’s, if we need, you know, 20 appointments by today by, you know, by noon, I better have 10 of those on the board. What’s the problem? Why don’t we have 10 yet? So, tracking that cadence. So, so, yeah, so we can, we can adjust and tune up. I can hear what they’re saying if I need to anyways. Yeah. Yeah. So what do you, I guess kind of obviously there are a lot of things that painting company owners are sort of struggling with, right?

So the automation um haven’t really been fully embraced like they have maybe some other industries uh kind of, I guess being neglectful might be an okay, we’re neglectful of leads um of the resource that they currently have. Are there any other uh I guess industry, why not not that’s applicable to ever? Everybody, but just generally industrywide issues that you’re seeing that, that as a whole, painting companies need to really step up or change how they’re thinking about their marketing. Oh, my goodness. Oh, marketing in particular. Okay.

Marketing or sales. I mean, we could, you know, go all day pricing models on the sales in the whole way, the sales, most guys don’t have a sales methodology, estimators and again, in, in commercial, I understand and I believe the word estimator is, is appropriate, but I don’t think that’s appropriate. And again, that’s just my personal, that’s my personal stance on it. I love it, man. The project, I brought it up in my, in my presentation, the project consultants. But you know, if you know, there was some conversation yesterday in one of the sessions about, about setting appointments and qualifying leads, okay?

And uh if, if you’re at the point where you’ve got so many leads that you can’t service them all, you know, let’s just say you have in a given time frame, 150 people that wanna price from you and you only have time to serve to meet with 100 of them. You better make sure that you meet with the best 100 of the 150. So you do need to, you do need to evaluate those and kind of give them a grade and, and meet with the best ones that you can. But in reality, you had 100 and 50 people that are interested in doing business with you.

So the real underlying problem is a sales capacity issue. That’s the real problem. And, uh, we should always have sales capacity if we’re building good systems. I don’t wanna be the guy sitting there filtering through leaves all day to get the few that are gonna sell. That’s just, that’s short that, that’s shortsighted. I get it. You may be in that spot as a company right now. We have too many leads. Well, stop spending so much on marketing. Stop wasting extra money on marketing right now. Save that money and spend it somewhere else.

Maybe hire someone to, to, uh, to sell you some of that money to hire a salesperson and then just start meeting with more of those people. They’re probably buying from someone. You know, let’s just say in the industry wide, average is a third of the people may buy from you. A third are gonna buy from someone else and a third are not gonna buy now. And there could be a little depending on what market you’re in. There could be some D I Y in there. But, but I, I uh huh.

My call centers job is to get our project consultants face to face with a homeowner. Hopefully all the, all the parties if possible, when possible that that have a want or a need. And then it’s my salespersons job to, to build value, trust, exposed, need, uncover the wants and the desires, the wise of the project and face to face. That’s their job, not the call center’s job. Jason man. So this is uh think we’re coming up somewhere around an hour now. Um I wanna, I wanna ask if you have anything else that you want to add.

I know we have the Sherwin Williams event coming up. I’m keeping you from it. I don’t want to keep you from it, but I do. I love this. I love doing it in person, man, I’m gonna, I’m gonna fly one day to your podcast studio just so I can be in the same studio and because I want, I want that back background one day, let’s do it. I want it. But do you have anything else? You know, with this episode, we got two more coming up, super excited about anything else you want to share?

You know, look, you can’t do everything all at once. But what can you do? Three little things, do something to reach out to people that you have done business with in the past and create some new opportunities. There. Just call them, you can email them. How about call them, uh text them phone calls. Great. You can, you can send them postcards. There’s just a myriad of ways, make a system that you constantly follow up. Those people don’t just do it because you need leads today system. Eyes it and hand it off to someone so that you’re always always uh re engaging those people. Okay?

The the leads that you gave a price to that didn’t sell, have someone else. Maybe it’s your spouse. If you’re the one selling, have your spouse to a customer service call, figure out what’s going on, why aren’t they buying from you? Okay. Maybe they can even get you back in there and then figure out the squabble when your spouse outsells you every time and, and, and the next one is, you know, just spend money on marketing, but spend someone who really work with someone like you, Brandon that really cares about making your company successful and not just taking your money.

And I feel like there’s, you know, there’s, there’s, I feel like there’s good companies in this space and you, and there’s, I mean, look, there’s, there’s some additional guys out there right in this space. Just look, there’s, there’s a lot of marketing business owners are have a barrage marketers. Yeah, and constantly, and you need to pick someone who has a vested interest in our space. Ok? Whether it’s you or one of the other companies, they don’t want painters unhappy with them. No, this is a tight community, community community spend your marketing dollars with people who have a vested interest in the marketing community.

That’s what I’m saying. That’s a smart way to think about it too. Whether it’s painting marketing pros, whether it’s one of the other industry partners of the painting contractors association, this is a small community. So if you partner with, with one of the industry partners that’s active in the community, that’s a, that’s a big risk, right? If I were to go screw A P C A member over, that’s gonna really come back really badly for painter marketing pros. So keep that in mind, regardless of who you’re looking at.

What is the vested interest in there. What’s the risk? What’s the downside if they just take your money and run. That’s just what, you know, everyone thinks it’s gonna happen. I don’t think that’s gonna happen to anybody that’s at this event. I mean, I mean, any, like you’re, you’re not gonna, you’re not gonna do the other companies here too. Yeah, it’s, it’s the companies that come, you’re in, you’re out, they have a vested interest in treating people right here. Exactly. I totally agree. Jason brother, I love it, man.

Thank you. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your shirt. I love your shirt, your shoes. Well, I can’t paint so I got to wear a pill. You know, that’s a low color, but thank you for having me today. Thank you, brother. It’s always a pleasure, man. If you want to learn more about the topics we discussed in this podcast and how you can use them to grow your painting business. Visit painter marketing pros dot com forward slash podcast for free training, as well as the ability to schedule a personalized strategy session for your painting company. Again that URL is paintermarketingpros.com/podcast.

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