Welcome to the Painter Marketing Mastermind Podcast. The show created to help painting company owners build a thriving painting business that does well over one million and annual revenue. I’m your host, Brandon Pierpont, founder of Painter Marketing Pros and creator of the popular PCA educational series, Learn, Do, Grow Marketing for Painters. In each episode, I’ll be sharing proven tips, strategies and processes from leading experts in the industry on how they found success in their painting business. We will be interviewing owners of the most successful painting companies in North America and learning from their experiences.

In this episode of the Industry Partners series of the painter marketing mastermind podcast. We host guest Danny Kerr Danny is the co-founder of Breakthrough Academy, a training development company specifically designed for contractors. Listen on as Danny describes the mechanics of how an effective contracting business works and how to set your company up to scale both efficiently and profitably. What’s up, Danny? Hey, man, how’s it going? Doing great man. Doing great. You and I spent some good time together at Contractor Reboot in Seattle. Yeah, that was awesome. You and your wife were uh some of my favorite conversations late into the night.

Had a good time. It got a little bit weird, but that’s what makes for good conversation. You make that sound terrible. It was good. It was good talking about the conspiracy theories of the world. We did. Yeah, we should probably probably clarify what I mean by weird. Otherwise it could be even worse, you know, the assumptions. Uh, and then the, uh, try to make some bad decisions. You had a good friend to come in town, which was very good. Uh So then you, you made bad decisions with that friend, which was good, but it was fun, man.

I enjoyed, I enjoyed hanging out with you. And while we were there, we, we talked about getting out of podcast together hence today. Yeah. Thanks for having me. That’s good. Yeah, man. So we, we, we both presented a contractor reboot. Uh You dove really, really deep into what makes a uh a successful contracting business, you know, the nuts and bolts of it. So I’d love to, I’d love to get into some of your uh background first kind of how you got into to BT A, how that whole thing came to be, maybe what BT A is and then we’ll, we’ll just kind of dive down rabbit holes as we go.

Let’s do it, let’s do it. What is your background? So you monster there? Um Yeah. So II I did start in painting. So, you know, that’s uh it’s kind of interesting being where I am now because looking back even being in painting was random for me. But it was, I was 18 years old looking for, you know, a job in university while I was going to school. And um saw that sign that a lot of young kids sees called college Pro painters and said, make 0003 grand this summer.

And I remember being drawn into that. I was like, I need 15 grand this summer. I got a lot of, I got a little bills to pay. So thought I was applying for a painting position. Um Found out it was for a student franchise um role and you know, over the course of a few interviews, I ended up starting a little small painting company. So when I was 18, that was kind of my summers uh 1819 and part of my twenties and um really started to see the difference between what I thought was going to be my success path, which was school, which to be honest, I really struggled with.

I’m hyper dyslexic and reading and writing is not my forte and university demands a lot of that. And starting to see my myself excel in this little business I’m running right. So I’ve got this little painting company, six employees, kind of just, you know, every, every year book and work through the off season producing it during the summer when I was off university. And um kind of fell in love with it and realized that like, I am much more of an entrepreneur than an employee and I need to explore this more.

So um left university after my second year and went into full time to work for college for corporate and went from being a franchisee with them to being a franchisor. So I hired and trained my own franchisees, moved to the Cold City of Edmonton, Alberta, which I do not recommend it’s a good experience to be there. But uh it’s a little different than British Columbia and um kind of found my niche, niche, niche, whatever my thing. I like niche. I think it sounds very uh a little pretentious, but maybe that’s why I say it.

I like niche. So it was, you know, and really what it was was not only was it being an entrepreneur, but it was teaching entrepreneurship. So now I had all these young, you know, students who I had hired and basically were training to run their own small painting company and I just fell in love with it. I, I fell in love with the challenge. I fell in love with the camaraderie at Broad. I fell in love with being able to bring value and my whole family is actually teachers.

So it was nice to be able to be a teacher again. But in the world of business that I just learned. And um yeah, I spent all in with college pro almost eight years there. And, um, really in my own way, it was kind of my education. I said, well, if I’m not going to get a degree, this will be my education. So, um, it was nice. I got paid to do it, but I also learned how to run a business. So that was the early part of my twenties and brought me to a place where I realized at some point, although this gig with College Pro is amazing.

I do need to create my own thing. And I remember we had a dragon’s den event. Uh I can’t remember what year it was now. But um everyone in the company came together and we went over like, how do you take the concept of College Pro painters and create more businesses out of it? And so everyone was pitching, you know, college Pro window cleaning, college pro lawn care, college Pro moving services, different services that you can apply to the same franchisees model. And I remember going up there and just saying like, if I’m very honest, like I think we suck as a painting company.

We’re not, we’re not that good at it. But what we are world class at is training young people to run these small businesses. And I think that we have a business model within that, that we could take what we do and basically create a school for entrepreneurs. Um They didn’t go with it, but I remember sticking with that idea in my own mind. And when I left, that’s all I could think about as I was, like, I have to create this school, whatever this thing is. So, took a couple of years working with another, uh, uh, executive, uh, consulting company and learned about their world.

And actually, if anything learned about how much more I knew than I thought I was 26 I think when I started with them and by the time I was 28 I, I started BT A and it was kind of this like I’m young, but to be honest, II, I have to do this. It’s been like almost tearing me apart emotionally to not to ignore this idea. Um And it’s been a bit of a ride ever since. So breakthrough Academy started in 2015. We, you know, had 12 members. I think our first year, we’re up to 618 companies we actively work with now and over the last 89 years, we’ve not only, you know, realized a lot of our potential of what we can achieve, but it’s, I’ve learned a lot just from working with all these different businesses and seeing the patterns that exist in all these contracting companies and taking not only my experience of what I have, but really bringing the groups together where we can solve business for contracting.

Um So now we’ve got a pretty tight program. We’ve got 153 staff working for us and yeah, that idea. That dream, that was bugging me for so long. I now understand why it’s like this was what I was supposed to do. Um, I had no idea but it took a lot of years of just sweat blood and tears and figuring it out and now we’re here. So, yeah, that’s a bit of the story of how we came to be. What a cool path, man. So you have 618 companies now.

Yeah, yeah, I go, it fluctuates every week right. There’s, but yeah, that is where we’re at. What is your just general split, let’s say between painting companies and other businesses in the beginning. I would say painting was probably about 30 35% of our overall portfolio. It is probably now around 20 say 18 to 20. Um just marketing the way we have over the years, we’ve definitely got a lot into construction, a lot into roofing, landscaping um sub trades. So yeah, it used to be our biggest one. It’s now not and I think it’s just come down to the need and all these different areas of business that we just get pulled into and you just put your marketing dollars online, you build some relationships and suddenly before you know, it, you’ve got people in other worlds.

So and also this too, like I don’t do any of the active coaching anymore and we’ve hired some really expert coaches that have expertise in other, other industries. And that’s kind of where we’ve ended up. But yeah, painting still. It’s a part of what we do, but it’s not the main one like it used to be. Sure. So we were talking before we started recording here and you mentioned you guys just finish your winter summit. Is that right? How many summits do you guys do a year, one summer here?

So it’s kind of the, the big crescendo to everything we do. But all the members spend December getting their strategic plans ready. So we have a very tight process for that and they review, we put them in groups of five when they’re there. So where they review each other’s uh strap plans before they go into the entire event. And then we kind of couple it with, you know, on awards night, a keynote speaker, we have a full day of strategic planning where they’re all in their groups.

And then we do like an adventure activity, you know, snowshoeing, snowmobiling dog sled races, ice climbing, all kinds of different stuff. So we were in Bend Oregon this year and yeah, we had a really awesome crew there, not only our members, but some of our members wives were there as well and get to kind of see the impact, right? You know, spend a lot of time behind the laptop doing what we do. Um It was, it was, it’s a good refresh for like reminding you why you do what you do and um, I obviously have a great time up till three in the morning some nights and hanging with good people.

So, yeah, that’s super cool. Yeah. And you were, you were talking about that impact before we officially started that and the reward of, of seeing it because you can get so focused on your business and helping people but really into the logistics and the math and what you’re actually doing, you, you kind of fail to always appreciate the impact that you’re having. Totally. Yeah, both just like in the family life and the personal side and the numbers are neat. I mean, we had $2 billion that these guys all produce.

These guys and girls all produce in the last fiscal year and the average profit increase was 42%. So we always pull those numbers as kind of like an annual review and just standing in front of all those people meeting them, knowing their lives and the impact it’s made. I’m like, this is getting kind of crazy, you know, this was an idea and it’s now turning into this solution, that kind of an undeniable. And like, even for myself, I’m a little beside myself, I don’t know how to fully take that in.

But I’m like, again, I’m meant to do this. I’m glad I’m here. This is really so God bless man. That’s amazing. So you so 42%. I just wanna make sure everyone is super clear on this. You’re saying it’s a 5003% average profit increase. So basically for every $2 of profit that they were making before they’re now making close to $3 on average. Uh think of it this way, if they made say $100 they would make 100 and $42 the next year. That’s amazing. Yeah, at the same revenue level, uh some of the revenue will go up too.

So, like rev revenue would go up by about 20 30%. I think it was 26% was the average revenue increase net profit at 42. So we see revenue climb. But when we see profit increase even more than revenue, we know we’re, we’re acting on those efficiencies in the right way, making the business more efficient. Yeah. Revenue is vanity. Profit is sanity. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So let’s, I think it’s absolutely a wonderful thing. BT A does, I think there are so many people in the trades who maybe don’t have a, a professional business background.

They, they might have, um, you know, painting especially, they might have fell, fell into it. Right. Or they’ve just done it for a long time or their dad did or, or whatnot. What are some of the biggest mistakes that you see contractors make? Uh, you know, some of the patterns you’ve seen that you’ve been able to help people with that BT A when the overarching principle or theme is like, they see it as a, as a, they’re painters, they don’t see it as their business owners or entrepreneurs. Right.

So that’s like the beginning of all of it. It’s like, which way do you see yourself? Because if you see yourself as the world’s best painter, that’s all you’ll ever be. And that’s amazing. Some people, that’s all they ever want to be. So that’s totally fine. But some people are trying to run a business through being the world’s best painter and that you can’t, you can’t do that. You know, it doesn’t work. So a lot of the stuff that has to be early, early worked on um is the numbers, is the financials, the sales, the, the, the production, you know, metrics, there’s, the game is won and lost in those numbers and you can work as hard as you want.

You can hire as many people as you want. You can have the best vision ever. But if you don’t understand how to make profit on jobs, you don’t understand how to, you know, increase productivity per labor hour. If you don’t understand how many leads it takes to get a sale and you can’t, even if you know that you can’t project that out by a year, track back weekly and see where you’re at goal versus actual, you can’t influence behavior, let alone your own behavior, let your team’s behavior, right?

Like people need to see and understand where do I apply energy and effort this week? And if it’s always on a gut, I think, I do think gut gets people to, it’s like you could probably do a million dollar painting company and be pretty good just running it from your gut. But I think beyond that, you’re playing a pretty risky game and I see a lot of people start to falter after that. I wanna dive into this concept of, you know, can’t build a, a business, a sustainable business, maybe to the scale that, that you guys are looking at, if you’re focused just on being the world’s best painter, you know, I think that mindset of not really focusing on the widget per se, but the business of, you know, manufacturing selling the widget, let’s, let’s go into that because I don’t think that’s always super clear to people, you know, they might be listening, they might say what?

Well, Danny, you have to produce a great paint, you have to produce a quality project. So can we dive into what you mean by that? Yeah, I mean, I think when it comes to your product or your project work that you do, it has to be consistent with your brand, right? So people are hiring you expecting a certain level of quality and service and all of you have a different level of that. I mean, I’ve met so many different people, some people are specialized in the highest end niches of, you know, the world’s billionaires that they paint for.

Like, literally we have some clients that, that’s, that’s who their clients are and like you better believe they charge for it. Their brand represents it, the people they hire and the expertise required is very niche. Um And then you’ve got all the way down to your average, just residential repaint, college propane or kid that’s, you know, out there doing his thing, which is where I started and our brand represented a certain level of quality of experience and our job was to maintain that. Right. Um Absolutely. So, whatever that is for each individual person, I think that is vitally important if you get away from that and you just focus on business and you say, whatever the product can be completely crap because we’ll just make as much money as we can, you’ll last one or two years and you’ll go to business for sure.

Um But it’s not about more than trying to like, maintain what is what your brand represents and that’s not as difficult as people think. I mean, some people think there’s no way projects can get produced without me. But if you look around yourself and see almost any business that’s scaled up over the years or large, you know, fortune 0003 companies and everything in between small business, medium business, people have figured it out. It is not impossible and a lot of it comes down to reallocation of your time.

So being willing to pull away from the job sites a bit and being able to take time on other things like learning high level recruiting and on boarding and interviewing, building standard procedures to enable a structure for people to enter and hold up the brand. And I think there’s a bit of stubborn pride and ego too where it’s like you don’t wanna feel useless, you don’t want to feel like you’re not needed. And so you make yourself needed by filling your time with stuff is not serving you long term.

Yeah, don’t mistake activity for achievement. So this idea that you can get to a certain level yourself, you know, driving it as a business owner, maybe you are a master craftsman or, you know, passionate about it and you grow to a certain level. But then if you want to go beyond that, this idea, well, no one’s gonna be able to estimate and sell the way I can. Well, no one’s gonna be able to manage a project I can or maybe if you’re earlier earlier on, no one’s gonna be able to paint like I can’t, but you have to decide.

Are you, are you wanting to grow a business as a business owner? Are you wanting to stay in that particular role? And if you want to grow as a business owner, you probably need to develop a new skill set because it’s something you haven’t done before I think that’s something you spoke about a contract review. I’d love to, to kind of dive into this leveling up or shifting of skill sets. Sure. Yeah. I mean, it’s so when I see it with our members, like, let’s say this, I have, you know, painting contractor comes in, I have very difficult people to hire for because our projects are so complicated.

I need people that are so specifically trained that I could never step away from the job site. Right? I hear that decently often actually. And I’m like, ok, so there’s actually two skill sets that you really need to hone in on to get this right. The first one is recruiting. So we’re gonna have to be able to open up the net and put more than the three hours a week in the recruiting that you’re currently doing, potentially put 20 hours a week into it for the next six months, even just to really, and there’s a skill to that, there’s a skill to knowing how to generate applications, how to build ideal candidate profiles, how to draw up a copy properly, how to prescreen people, how to ask good questions in the interview, how to ultimately like be a good recruiter and interviewer and an on board of people.

And then the other half is we need to take what’s in your brain, what you know, so well, and we need to document it in a repeatable way. And if there are sometimes things and it’s never perfect. So there are things sometimes where you realize this is not a replicable way of doing things. But I do want to grow this as a business. We need to pick a part of your product and service offering that is replicable, right? So if you’re only doing high gloss, you know, whatever mirror finish, you know, doors and that’s your thing.

And it’s like, it’s not repeatable because it’s a craft you h for 20 years, it’s like, OK, that, that can be an issue. I’m not gonna lie. But what else do you do? Right. It’s like, what are the other things that you could have put people on, on sites on that could repeat over time? And generally, I mean, painting, if I look at it is not the most complicated contracting trade I work with, right? You look at some of the builders, we work with some of the custom homes that, that, that they’re doing and the design work involved, the engineering involved and the all the things that go into it, I can assure you painting if anything is one of the more repeatable industries that we work with and has it actually to its advantage. Yeah.

So the the mental shift from being an artist in or really focusing on the painting to being a business owner and understanding the skill set and accepting that and kind of embracing that. Are there any other roadblocks or big mental shifts. I mean, that’s a pretty massive one. But any other big mental shifts, you see? Yeah. And, and I mean, it was, everyone’s gonna be listening to this who’s from, coming from different walks of life, like I’ll say this, you don’t have to do that. No one’s forcing you.

We do need good craftsmen where, like, some of the people I hire to work at my home are just single entrepreneurs and they’re amazing. And I’m so glad that they’re here to do the work they’re doing because I couldn’t find anyone else to do it. Um Not at that level anyways. So you, it’s just like it comes from passion, like you have to want it and you can’t just say, well, I want to make more money. That’s not passion. Like there has to be a reason you want to create something you’re excited by leading people.

You want a brand that’s recognized has something to do with you. And if you’re excited by that idea and it gets you up in the morning, that’s a good sign. But if it, you dread it and you’re just like, I just wanna make maybe 20 or 30 grand more. There’s other ways to do that and to keep it still small and to keep it around you, that’s totally cool. So make sure it’s like your choice, not something that you just saw that conference got inspired and felt. Well, everyone else is growing their company.

I, I, but I it’s like it’s OK, craftsmen are still highly valued in this industry and we need them. So. Yep. Yeah, in comparison is the thief of joy. And when people are speaking at conferences, I was actually talking to someone about this today. They’re not always being 100% transparent, right? Sometimes they’re actually outright line. So if you feel like you’re at, at conferences or you’re at events and you feel like you’re the least successful person there, recognize that sometimes people are showboating or saying things that are maybe not 100% accurate.

So don’t, don’t necessarily feel that way the uh I wanna parlay from that into something you mentioned that contractor reboot because I think this, it ties very nicely into the idea of you having a strong why, you know, you, you needing it to be tied to something other than just, hey, I wanna make money. You talked about how you used to be called Danny. Danny Te, that’s what they referred to you as, right? Because you would just drive. And then eventually you realized even though you’re so passionate about this, there’s still a limit to how hard and long a human being can drive before you start to suffer from burnout.

Let’s let’s talk about burnout. I mean, I wish I was a good example for like having seen it ahead of time and been proactive, but it’s it, a lot of my examples are reactive to the point where I have to change. Um impulsive entrepreneur. Yeah, I’m just obsessive. I just kind of love it. So, yeah, I mean, I don’t know. II, I mean, ok, so like, you know, college pro first year franchisee, 80 hours a week, like literally 80 hours a week, maybe more. Um hit the end of the summer I had made good money, you know, as an 18 year old kid, I think I’d made 53 grand a month profit.

And I had saved almost all of it because I lived at home at the time. It was great. So I had 40 grand sitting in my account for the four months of summer, but good. But I was so exhausted. I was like, I am not meant to be an entrepreneur, not because it wasn’t a great ride that I did. Well at, in lots of ways. I have to work so bloody hard for it to work. I shouldn’t do this and I did some, you know, basically went, I went and did a bit a very different thing.

After that. I went and flew helicopters. So I went and took the $40,000. I made put it in the helicopter school, spent six months learning to fly choppers. And it was the strangest thing ever because I was more depressed. It was. And everyone says that to me and I, and I guess there was flying choppers was cool. But like, it was one hour every two days, plus ground school for an hour, maybe every other day. Like, I’m like, going from eight hours a week to, like seven and I was so underwhelmed.

I was lethargic. I was, I was more depressed, working too little, like being underwhelmed than I was being overwhelmed. It was a very interesting feeling for me where I was like, huh? Like, it is actually ok to work hard and be busy and be like a driver. Um maybe not to the level I did it. But like, you know, this is still who I am. I need to go do this. And as cool as helicopter school sounds like it actually made me almost depressed. Um because I wasn’t doing what I was supposed to be doing.

So you ruined it. So I will say this. So my second year I was tw 19 now. So I’m still pretty young. But I remember going back my girlfriend at the time, my now wife. So she stayed with me since I was 16 actually. Thank God. Um but I remember making one promise to her. I said look, um I will go back and do this again but I promise I won’t suck at my job as much as I because she always used to say that she’s like, man, you like, it’s great and all you did this but you kind of suck at your job.

Honestly brutal. So she said to me and uh and I was like, I won’t suck at my job. And here’s the one thing I would do differently. I am going to hire a project manager to manage a lot of the day to day side. And so that the phone that’s ringing goes to that person and not me. So I made one small change and I went from working 80 hours a week down to, I’d say probably 60. Now, a lot of people, they said that’s, that’s um that’s not super sustainable.

That’s a lot of work. It was required. I was young. I needed to do a start up. I was into it. I like doing that. It felt more, more balanced for me anyways. And um a change had to be made because I drew myself to complete exhaustion. But the opposite wasn’t better. Like just, just sitting back and working six hours a week, seven hours a week was terrible too. Or even the idea of having a job, like, kind of torn me apart a little bit. So, so I made that little adjustment and I will say, you know, I’ve been an entrepreneur now since I was 18.

So what in my twenties? 37. So yeah, almost 53 years, 19 years. And there’s times through that entire 19 years, even just a couple of years ago where I overwork myself, I overburden myself. I have to evaluate what’s going on, see where it’s getting in my way and make one or two small tweaks. Um My default is to be a hard working dude, like, just kind of, I’m a workaholic so I am. I know that about myself. I don’t hate that about myself. I don’t try and hide that. I don’t wish it away.

I enjoy it, but I do need to and, and I’m getting better as I’m getting older. Recognize when it’s enough’s enough and start to like, put one or two changes in place to create some balance. And I’ll, I’ll end with this balance isn’t about what you do week in week out. Although sometimes it can be balance can sometimes be. And I’ve done this a lot in my life. These next four months are our go season. I’m, there’s no balance, good luck. But the four months after that, I promise I’ll, we’ll go on this family vacation.

I’ll be home for dinner because it’s our off season and like, and I’m good with that. So, yeah, people, people as entrepreneurs, I think all struggle with this. I don’t think I’m unique to this. Most of us do, especially the ones that are really passionate about what they do. Um And just know that it’s ok. It’s not ok forever though because you will eventually get exhausted. Um And sometimes balance is, is over the course of 12 months. It’s not every day having, you know, everything looked perfect in your block scheduled calendar.

I do grind during high season and then I make sure I have scheduled space to get away in an off season. I think that’s great. I think knowing that it’s ok to have a different schedule. We don’t have to, hey, you have to take every weekend off or make sure you take 11 full day off a week or, or that you eat dinner with your family every night. Obviously, these things are ideal but there might be go, go times or there might be times in the development or growth of your business, especially early on where that’s just not feasible.

If you do it, you might not get to where you’re going sometimes putting your head down and I’m gonna sprint for a second here and then I’m gonna, I’m gonna consciously not let that continue. I’m gonna consciously pull back at this certain time. Yeah. And even play devil’s advocates. What I’ve just said, don’t allow that to be your excuse. So that’s what you’re always doing. You’re not mistaken, you’re always one month away from having some time away. Like schedule it, pay for the trip. Oh, we have to go on a vacation for a week and a half, uh, in whatever November 10th and it’s already paid for.

So I guess that’s what we’re doing, right. And then I have made a commitment that, like, I will not work weekends as of these dates and like, I’ve already got scheduled things for those things, um, to force it on yourself and, and you will find you’re, you’re gonna be ok. But, um, takes discipline and it takes commitment to actually doing it. I, my biggest thing is I just schedule things and pay for them once they’re paid for it. I have to go do them. And I do find after a good vacation I’m able to like, re reset a little bit then just keep going with the same weekly routine.

So, yes, not. I’ve found that there are times when I have to pull back or my wife pulls me back and I don’t want, you know, it’s kind of kicking and screaming like, no, I have to do. I have to and then you come back and it’s like, wow, I was, I’m pretty happy I did that because now I just thought of a totally different way to do this and it’s much smarter. Yeah, 100%. The uh, so you said you have to know when enough is enough, you and I are, are pretty similar in the hard charging.

Hey, you know, if there’s something to be done, great, just roll up your sleeves and, you know, we’ll just plow through and get it done. How do you know? Because there’s so much celebration of hard work, right? There’s in the media and, and entrepreneurs and hey, you have to go through hell, go through the ring of fire. There’s so much celebration of that and sort of idealization of that. How do you know where the line is? Like, hey, you do have to work hard as an entrepreneur.

It’s a tough venture versus, you know, hey, you’re probably over the edge. A ask people around you, you’re, you’re probably not gonna be your own best barometer because your perception of reality is probably quite skewed to everyone else around you. Sure don’t be afraid to ask, ask your friends, ask your family, ask the people you trust and know. Um, and don’t be afraid of their answers because they’re probably not gonna be exactly what you want to hear. So, um, yeah, my wife has been a really big part of this, right?

She is my barometer and I know when she’s mad at me and instead of ignoring that and trying to just smooth it over, I ask her like, how are you feeling? How am I doing with supporting you? How am I doing with showing up? And she’ll give it to me pretty straight. And I’m like, ok, I hear you like, I will do something about this. Um, one good thing about being a person of action, which people that work too much often are. If you make a commitment, you can also action yourself into that, which I action myself into time with my family.

And I kind of know it’s already an issue by asking and bringing it out into the open. I’m forced to contend with it and I’m happy to, I’d rather have good communication around it than just ignore it and kick it, kick the can down the road. So can’t, can’t really ask. She says, yes, it’s a problem. Ok, great. I’m gonna continue to do that. A really big jerk. Yeah. At that point you’re kind of, kind of committed the, uh, so let’s talk about sort of delegating. I’ll, I’ll say, from my experience, you know, in the beginning it’s do everything on your own because you kind of have to, you know, Jack of all trades, learn it all.

You should know your business well. And then as you grow, I started delegating things that I didn’t like or that I felt that I wasn’t the best at. And uh as you continue to grow, it became to me. OK, if there’s my barometer was, is this a task? Is this a task that I’m doing over and over and over again? That doesn’t need me. This podcast needs me. There’s no one for me to easily replace here. I enjoy the podcast. I like the connections. I’m going to continue to do it.

It’s a little bit like a task, but it’s a high value task that I’m, I’m especially well suited for and that I enjoy. Then there are other tasks where I find OK, I’m doing it over and over again. How the heck do I stop doing this? Is that one of the things I, is that a barometer you use? Yeah. What you’re speaking to. So, yeah, these are more tactical things that we’re just talking philosophy. But if you want to talk tactical. So, um, one really valuable thing everyone should do every year is kind of what you’re speaking to is do an annual audit of your job.

So I’ll do an annual audit of my job and usually my team’s job as well, teams jobs as well. But at the bare minimum annually audit your job. And what you’re doing is you’re writing down all the things that you do, right? And then you’re circling stuff that’s high time consumption, but low skill. And that’s usually the first stuff to choose to delegate. And there’s many ways to delegate things. You can hire someone else to take on that role because there’s enough of it, you can delegate it down to an existing person.

Obviously on your team, you can potentially systemized it. So it’s not even like needed anymore. So it’s just a part of a system or like part of that system organization thought is like you could find technology to potentially do it. There’s so many things that especially repetitive things that feel over and over again happening. Like there is probably something out there that does that. Now if it’s more manual, like I remember one was like picking up paint and dropping off ladders, right? And I was like, well, like I know where my addresses are and I know all the customers and I know all the specific specs of what everyone expects and need.

So, like, let me just take care of this and this was early in my painting career. But like I remember I was talking to the paint store about their delivery system and how they work and how they cost a little bit more money, but how it can be worth it and how all they need to know is by 12 o’clock the day before what my order is and then they can actually have it on the site ready to go first thing in the morning. And I was like, oh, so like, I just have to have a, have to have a process with my production team where by 12 they call in and make an order and they have to be aware of that.

And if they’re not calling me by 12 guess who has to drive to the paint store themselves and get paint them, the expectation is set. It’s in their agreement. It’s been discussed in training. Now we can go do that. Danny Kerr doesn’t have to do paint anymore. Right. Other little things where I was, I was kind of cheap. I was like, I had one production vehicle. I had the only ladder racks, I’ll move all the ladders myself. I wanna save money. Um, gave up on that. Got some more production vehicles, got some more ladder racks, made sure each crew had their own dedicated vehicle and completely stopped me from being, I have to having to be at sites every single morning and trying to rush to get everybody going, increased productivity of all my crews gave me more time to go book more work and gave me ultimately a space to actually create my business around me.

So there’s, there’s tons of stuff you do every year. That’s high time consumption and low skill that needs to be delegated, as you said. But delegation comes in many forms, right? Hire somebody delegate down, systemized it or potentially use technology. Yeah. Or, I mean, those things all need to be done. Some, some things you may be doing that you could just get rid of. Sometimes we do things e especially if you’ve been doing something for a lot of years. It’s so interesting. I’ve seen our team, this do this a lot, but it’s like, why do you do that still?

I don’t know. It’s just, we’ve always been doing it that there was a report that one of my assistants was making for me that was saved in Google Drive that I didn’t go look for it for like a year and a half and she did it every Friday. And she’s like, well, you used to like this is what you needed to like, see our numbers at the end of the week. I’m like you needed this. We set it up in our CRM now. Like it’s all, it’s all automated.

She’s like, well, I know, but like I thought maybe you wanted to check it and just make sure it was all accurate because you wanted to do that when we first set it up. And I was like, yeah, for like two weeks just to, like, make sure things were. I’m sorry, I forgot to tell you. Um, you can stop now. Um, we can save you two hours a week. So, yeah, there’s stuff for sure. And if you don’t do that audit, it’ll just pile up on you and your team and the efficiency factors start to go down without that audit.

So, I like that audit a lot doing a, a full audit of your role. But then everyone on the team and then figuring out if something be done that shouldn’t be done is there, hey, you’re doing this task and you’re doing that. If, if we actually just have one of you combine, it’s gonna be a lot faster, things like that. Yeah, I will say to back that up like to do that. Well, you need to have standardized employment agreements where each role is standardized and everyone knows what they do in the chain of command.

Um, you could do it on an Excel sheet and loosely tell people things but it doesn’t stick, stick that well. Um, it’s really good when they know what their, their goals are, they know what their deliverables are. They know what, like what their bonus structure is around hitting those goals and then the tasks come out of all of that. So, um yeah, that’s a, that’s a note that not everybody has in place, but I would encourage everyone like, and we have them free on our website if you want to get them, but like get some employment agreements in place.

It’s usually a good place to start to be able to, you know, create those mechanisms. So, yep. Yeah, I love it. So the the kinds of partners and customers that you guys have. So the kinds of companies that work with you, you’ve probably throughout the years noticed certain characteristics or trends or, or the kind of company or person who comes in and just is likely to do extremely well, you know, become sort of one of the top versus someone who maybe comes in and is likely to struggle a little bit more.

Can you speak to, to some of this? Uh, our coaches actually, if anything give us a lot of feedback because we’re, I’m running also our sales team right now. So we’ve got our sales team passing off to coaching and we get a lot of feedback, like what’s working and what’s not. Um one thing we weed out for even on the sales side is attitude and it’s this like open mindedness, this curiosity, this willingness to fail this vulnerability piece that most entrepreneurs are. A lot of entrepreneurs aren’t used to having, even if they want to be vulnerable.

They’re not used to it because they’re kind of like the buck has to always stop with them. So they don’t want to look vulnerable. But being able to do that, it’ll open you up to new ways of doing things and new ways of thinking. Um, you can’t just force your way into change. It has to be more of a, a delicate process at times and so openness is massive and I don’t know, just like be less afraid to share is a good start. It’s like just say what’s really going on, be real.

It’s one of our values of BT A is be real and you’ll watch as people come with answers and understanding and, and they’ll rally around you more than just you against the world. Um Profitability is a thing. It’s hard to scale when you’re already not making money. And when you think that making money is gonna come by doing more revenue, you’re sadly mistaken. Um Really watch that and that there are a, there are a few instances where revenue does need to increase because you have committed to more overhead and anticipation for growth, which I have seen that.

But outside of that scenario, for the most part, you need to get the revenue you are producing to be a profitable part of like what you do and then use that profit to scale up from there. Um Don’t do this on credit card debt, don’t go get massive loans from banks, especially painters. You guys do not have complicated businesses that require a ton of seed capital. Um, you can do this off your own dime and you need a profitable business that already works for you to be able to scale it up.

It’s like a, it’s like a, a vehicle. It’s like you got a vehicle that’s just burning oil and gasoline. You’re like, we’ll just dump more oil in it and it’d be great. It’s like, no, you, like, you have a fundamental problem in the mechanics of your machine. It probably should be stopped and fixed before we keep moving on, you know, faster on this thing. So, yeah, that’s a big one. I think the last thing is what we’re talking about with delegation, but it’s like the ability and willingness to delegate and build a team around you, right?

Find people who are better at what they do than you are. And that takes time and training and development. But like, be willing to go down that path because what happens is you’re, you hire somebody, you’re saying you’re gonna be the project management. I’m gonna step back. It’s gonna be great and they screw up and you’re like, you can’t do this, right? You’re not doing this. Like I would do this. This is not correct. You’re costing me more time and money. I might as well just do this myself.

Like you’re fired. I’m gonna go do this myself again. But what you’re missing is the process that takes to develop that person, which is slower and more arduous than taking care of that one thing on Tuesday yourself that you, it’s like, yes, I could go, just solve that, squash that issue in an hour or I could take like three weeks training, that issue so that into that person correctly. So that they don’t have it, go, the, go the longer route of that three week training because that’ll pay you dividends for years as a result and you have to get used to that way of being with people. Yeah.

Uh entrepreneurship in general, you have to always have that longer time horizon and it’s, it is so tempting if there’s a fire or something that just needs to get done, just go do it, knock it out, it’s so much slower and more frustrating to then go build the process. Figure out why it wasn’t done. Make sure you, you’ve covered for everything, train the person on it. It just seems absurdly long, but it gets you out of that role. So ultimately, you have to i it’s a totally different mindset.

You’re not doing the thing. The thing is your business. The thing is your company. So when you’re doing those sops or it takes five hours instead of one hour, you are doing the thing because the thing is your company, the thing is not actually the, the widget or the fire. You know, it’s interesting. Some of the best business owners that I know in painting are really shitty painters. Yeah. I found that they, they can’t do the job that they’re supposed to, they can’t go plug in or fix it.

They can’t. So, they’re forced to think differently right from the day one. And it creates that way of being right out of the gates. They have to find the processes and the people being able to do it yourself is, is a crutch in some ways, it is 103%. So one of the, one of the cool things you talked about also at the contract reboot was this idea of 10 X I kind of like to bash Grant Cardone. I mean, I respect him in a lot of ways, but I also like to bash him.

So the, you said, you know, every time you think about 10 X, you said, like your blood just runs cold about the operational nightmare that’s being created. Let let’s talk about this idea of, hey, grow and I’m, I’m honestly partially guilty of perpetuating it just from, hey, we interview companies doing over a million. You know, it gets people focused on that top line revenue without always necessarily thinking about their business. But let’s dive into that. Sure. I mean, I even so I have two other business partners, one of them um Igor who I would say is kind of like our ops leader and he’s incredible with the actual operational complexity and engineering execution of what we do and build every single day.

And you know, it’s coming to a point for BT A even where I’m like, hey man, like we have lots of extra profit, we should use this to grow the business in other ways. And he always reminds me and I see it too in some of the stuff we’re doing. He’s like, Danny, you can only deploy so much capital at a time that you can manage properly, effectively into existence a good return. Because if you just dump money out into the world and hope that it’s all gonna work out for you, chances are just burning extra cash because you can only effectively manage so much change in a given year.

And I agree with them and I’ve seen this in our business, time and time again and you know, there’s a lot of it’s, it’s so it is very counter intuitive to the like North American entrepreneurial story that we’re always told which is outside of painting. But like, you know, in technology, it’s like go get seed capital, people will give you millions of dollars, go burn it, running an unprofitable trade, you know, that technology company for the next five years and then maybe someone will buy you up and you’ll get a big return.

It just, it’s so it seems so backwards to me like no, like learn how to be effective and profitable with what you have. Find your next big opportunity, take one step into that, take 20% of your time and step into that one new opportunity and, and, and prove that it will yield results. Now build more resources and that and, and, and allocate more time around that. Um So we have always grown consistently and we’ve always grown with a lot of intention. We’ve never wanted to try and 2000 X the business because whenever we do and any, any of the members we work with who have and they’re not 215 Xing, they’re double or tripling within a year, which is a lot, that’s a lot to do with here.

Um They’re falling apart at the seams, the brand is falling apart. The people are upset, they’re not making very much money, they’re totally lost and confused about what’s actually a priority because they put 2500 priorities on their plate in one given year. And like you think about the, the hiring complexity that, that brings into place. How are you gonna hire great people and spend the time to actually interview and on board and train those people. You’re probably not, you think about the profitability of complexity that puts into place.

You don’t know what your targets should be for spends and overall profit if you’re 2000 Xing in a year because you’ve never had any experience with a business of that size. Think about the, you know, marketing complexities and sales pressures that that puts on. It’s like you suddenly are bringing that much into the door, who’s selling and booking and bringing in all that work, who’s securing that work in a profitable way, who’s setting proper expectations with all those customers? Like the amount of, especially in the brick and mortar businesses of contracting and trades.

The amount of operational night fuckery and nightmare that that brings is not a good message for our industry. Now, if you’ve got a funnel where you can online have somebody click and buy a digital product and it’s, you know, they have doing an Amazon drop ship and you’ve just got to figure out the equation to get more ad spend to. Ok, I get that there were arguments for why something simple can be scaled up. That’s just the same over and over and over again. But in our industry, we’re a brick and mortar.

We have real people with real job sites, with real physical things we do every single day um scale it but scale it with intention and time, time is on more sides. We don’t need to do it all in one year. Yeah. The uh trying to, it’s a, it’s a laborious business, you know, it’s labor. So trying to scale that quickly is difficult. Yeah, it’s, and, and every industry has its pros and cons like I always call it the great equalizer of capitalism, right? Whenever there’s a unique opportunity enough people fill that void that it becomes kind of a similar opportunity to everything else, right?

Painters always look at builders and they say, man, these guys, they book million dollar jobs, like imagine I could book a million dollar job, how easy my life would be. And I’m like, you have no idea the operational complexity that goes into building a custom home versus painting, right? And then the the the custom home builders, they look at the painters and they’re like, man, you make how much profit per job, man. And like, you only have that one thing to take care of every day only, right?

And I’m like, guys, it’s, it’s a, it’s a level playing field. We all have different pros and cons to the industries we’re in and we just have to, as entrepreneurs lean into the things that work and solve the things that don’t. And ultimately, it’s fine, like, but I don’t think a painting business is built to be 25 X in a year. No, I think that’s, it can be done. It’s probably not smart unless you’ve done this before and you have all the backing to do it. Yep. Yeah.

The grass is always greener on the other side. And the, you know, any time in my life that I’ve tried to throw money at a problem, it doesn’t solve the problem. So if you’re scaling, if you’re 25 Xing or, or even 1003 A in, you’re, you’re having all these fires all in a way that operational complexity you’re trying to hire people. The default. Like you said, you’re probably not make a lot of money. Default is you’re gonna start throwing money. Try to find good people. If you pay them a bunch, if you, if you po we’ll find a good person, but there’s no vetting and just throwing money out into the, into the world doesn’t tend to work very well.

Yeah, I said this to me, it’s just this, maybe everyone says it, but it’s like, I don’t think really money makes more money, it can, but what really powers it is creativity, creativity and dynamic thinking. And the only reason way to be a really good creative, strategic entrepreneur is to have enough experience to take yourself to that next step and then get experience there and then enough experience to take yourself to that next step and then get, you know, solidify the experience there. And I find it incremental.

Like I learn more every single year, my capacity and my ability to make moves is way more than it was 2100 years ago. Um But I couldn’t have gotten there in one year every year. It took that little bit of learning. So, so what, what is the general size of BT A? Now, how big is your company? Uh So we do what we’ll do about 215 million. Well, we just finished 218 15 million. Um pushing for about 18 million. Next year. This gives you an idea of our growth trajectory. Um, like I said, 47 staff, we have another 13 on the hiring roster for 2024.

Um I know it’s, that’s pretty good profit business. And yeah, given the trades, we don’t, we don’t have any variable expenses, but we have a boatload of overhead. You have talent coaches, we have talent, we have marketing budgets, we have big technology plays, we’re play making right now. Um But yeah, I mean net net, we have a very tight budget. We keep pretty like clear every single month how we did versus our goals on our financials, on our sales, on our, on our member retention, all the, all the KPIS that matter to us.

And um it’s a nice steady growth of usually 1 to 153 million a year is kind of what we see and that’s what we’ve been doing since day one. So I, I ask about that. I, I know, well, it’s good to give people reference. I knew you guys were around that size but I think we, we’re, we’re kind of sold this idea of these sexy start-ups, right? That’s in the news that that’s what’s spread entrepreneurship is these sexy explosive start ups, you know, tech start up this and that breakthrough academy is really not a sexy company.

It’s a company that teaches contractors how to run an effective, but that doesn’t sound like, oh my God, that’s so sexy. Right. It’s like you’re an educational company that empowers people to run effective about excel sheets. Right. Job descriptions, delegation, money, you know, profitability of your company. But I think for 99.9% of entrepreneurs success should look and feel kind of boring because it’s doing the right thing every day over an extended period of time and then you find success. It’s not what you read or see on the news.

So if it’s, if you’re not just exploding, it means you’re failing, don’t fall into that trap. You know, it reminds me of I was, um, so when I was in university, when I was doing this painting thing, I was going to school to be a police officer actually. So I was studying criminal law and um, I had done what’s called the junior Police Academy. And I remember in my mind, I had this vision of what it meant to be a police officer. I was like, I’m gonna be out on the streets, I’m gonna be dealing with people.

I’m gonna be saving Hollywood, Hollywood. And then I get it done twice every day, man. I get in and do a ride along with this guy and he’s like two hours. We did that. It was awesome. And then we sit in his car and fill up paperwork for like another eight and I’m just like, what is this? And he’s like, you have to document everything that you’ve done for the day you have to like, like whatever he’s doing, I don’t remember this day was like, 80% of his job was super boring and nobody ever talks about it.

But it, what’s, it’s what makes him an excellent police officer that the things he enforces the things he, the people, he incarcerates the, the tickets, he writes all the stuff that annoy us, but like the things he does in his job, which I wanted at the time. Um It is super boring except for the one little bit that you see on TV. Um And it’s not too different than entrepreneurship. I will say this for me personally. So I, I spend a lot of time planning, looking through things, running sessions, training new employees, doing interviews, like all the same stuff that you guys do as you build your business.

Um I kind of like it. So the boring stuff is fun to me. Although other people outside of, you know, looking in are kind of like Danny, like my kids are always like you just in front of your laptop all day, like what are you doing? Um But I like it and I found, I found a lot of joy with it and I would say that to most people that are doing this, like make sure you like that kind of work if it, if it just eats you a way to be sitting doing this type of stuff.

Like, don’t it, it won’t work out well for you and you’re not, if it does, you’re not gonna be happy with the things you do every single day. Um, there are entrepreneurs and a lot of us out there. I’m one of them. It’s like, I really like the game. To me it’s a giant game of monopoly. And, um, I like the strategy and the ways it makes me think and the challenges it puts me through and although it looks like I’m just sitting and typing all day, I’m, I’m thinking in a way that makes my mind happy, I guess.

I don’t know. But, um, yeah, entrepreneurship isn’t, isn’t super glamorous. It’s not super. There’s a lot of, a lot of it that you have to just sit in front of a computer and think it’s a thinking man’s game. It’s a thinking man’s game. And I like the way I like the, I like that. I like the thought experiments that puts me through. So, yeah. Yeah, I like Alex Ramos a lot. His content and his, uh, podcast called The Game because he’s the great business leaders and entrepreneurs think of business as a game.

So I think it’s, it’s pretty brutal game early on, but it can get really fun if you put the pieces in place totally. And I’ll say this to you, to everyone listening. It, it is a brutal game in the context of our North American lifestyle. Hm. And what I mean by that is, we already grew up with the genetic, we, we, we grew up bless, we, we were born, the genetic lottery already won. And if we really look at the rest of the world, I’m sure we can all be in agreement with that.

But what’s hard is to actually internalize that and know that. Um, and so there’s one thing I always say to myself, it’s kind of a funny saying, but it keeps me sane Danny. As long as you can eat sleep poop and breathe, you’re gonna be fine. Yeah. And so things can happen to us where we’re like, man, I’m gonna go bankrupt, man. I can’t pay payroll this month, man. I don’t know like how we’re gonna get this job done. This customer is suing me, you know, there, there’s, there’s hard stressful things that are and will happen on this journey.

Um But it’s ok. You already won the genetic lottery. This is a game and at some level, even if you have the word, some people, not everyone agrees with me in this. But I’m like, even if you lost your house, you will still have a place to stay, you will still have food. I know it doesn’t seem like it will happen that way, but it mostly will unless you get into some hard drugs where we see these people in the streets barely getting by very few entrepreneurs actually end up there.

In fact, none that I’ve ever met have ever actually ended up to that level of destitution. But our brains tell us that if we don’t book this enough work next week to supply for our cruise or if we don’t pay payroll, then that’s where we’re gonna go. That’s not true. And that’s a giant lie. And we have an opportunity here to, to, to feel free to feel abundance. We have to kind of accept it a little bit too and realize how different we are from the rest of the world. Yeah.

And we do, I think those are great points and not to undermine the stress and, or the idea of losing a house, but there are worse thing. There are worse pla we tend to have a lot of safety nets here. You know, there’s soup kitchens there. It, it really isn’t typically a life or death scenario. Not literally. Whereas in other countries or other, other person actually could potentially literally be that dire. Yeah. Um, my buddy says to me, he’s like, we’re talking about this exact topic and he’s like, I’m like, because he’s the one who presented it to me.

And I’m like, you are so right. Um He’s like, let me give you an example. I’m like, sure we’re sitting in a, in a restaurant and he’s like, let’s just pretend that I stopped talking and I stopped like moving and I’m like, ok, he’s like, this is a weird conversation. I know, but he wants to prove how much, like, I think everyone listening, I think everyone listening can see why you and I had the weird conversation who is prompting this? Um, and he’s like, why I was like, ok, so sure he’s like, what happens next?

I’m like, why probably eventually leave because you’re being boring and I’d pay my bill and go, like, ok, cool. He’s like, what happens next? I was like, I guess the restaurant would ask you to leave because you’re not moving and, you know, they’d be a little weird out by this whole thing. Yeah. And he’s like, ok, cool. Then what happens? He’s like, I guess they call the cops to, like, remove you and he’s like, ok, and I’m still not moving. I’m still not doing anything. I’m not responding nothing.

They probably put you in a mental institution or something because you’re not, something’s wrong with you. And he’s like, uh huh. And I’m like, he’s like, and then what? And I’m like, I don’t know, man, you just be there and he’s like, exactly. He’s like, they, they have give me a place to stay, they’d feed me, they give me water. I, I would stay alive and I don’t even have to move or talk. That’s how blessed we are in this, in this society we live in. I was like, weird, but really good point.

So that was a weird way to get there. It’s a weird way to get there. But it’s, it’s like, I, it still sticks in my brain because I’m, like, right, like, we overcomplicate this whole survival thing way too much. That is the reality. Like we, we, we have abundance here to the point where we’ll take somebody who doesn’t speak or, or move and take care of them. Yeah, that’s a heck of an example that you’re, but, yeah. So, so, uh, getting slightly back, back to more tangible here for a second for people who, who joined P BT A I guess.

What could they expect from you guys? This is your opportunity to get a little more granular about what you guys do. I mean, I mean, sure you want granularity. I mean, expect to set a budget with us, set up sales and production plans. Expect to know your numbers, expect to track your numbers and be forced to do it every single week where we do a review. Expect to have an organizational structure, job descriptions in place, recruiting process in place, be skilled up in the scale of interviewing and hiring.

Expect to have complete standard operating procedures. We actually are just, we just finished the painting ones, but we have complete playbooks for you done. So you can take our playbooks and work off of those. Um expect to have a good sales plan in place. Expect to have a good marketing plan in place. Expect to have a good strategic plan like a business plan in place Um Yeah, like all the fundamental components of your business are already built. We built them and then we give them to you and then we slowly train them into existence with you.

So you and your company knows how to use them every single day. Um Questions will stop you. You’ll stop wondering what’s the right answer? You’ll now know what the right answer is. And the only thing left is for you to actually commit to those answers and go take the action required. Um All our members say this like you, you, you get what you put into BT A, like the more you put into this, the more you’ll get out, everyone knows that general way of life. Um But it’s very true here.

Um It is all here for you on a silver platter, but you still got to do the work once you take it off that plate and move it into your organization. Yeah, I love it. It’s set up to succeed and who for people listening, who think they may be interested in exploring a partnership with BT A. Who do you best serve? How, what kinds of companies do you typically work with? Is there a revenue level or how do you look at this? We have three different tiers.

So like the range is relatively large, I’d say painting would be like 500,000 to 15 million. We have three different tiers. So like the $500,000 million guys. We have a program for them. The million to like $5 million guys. We have a program for them and the 5 million to 10 million, we have a program for them. We kind of like put people in three different lanes. And um yeah, that would be like revenue size, usually like highly entrepreneurial owner stepping out of the day to day or working on it. Um Very interested in, in development and growth of the organization does not have to all be about revenue line growth.

It’s just I want to grow this business to be more of a, an organization than just me running it and really does need, I’d say five hours a week to work on the business and it can’t be a pipe dream to be able to do that because we need that time with you to be able to make this change um and willing to get along with other entre entrepreneurs and contractors. There’s a lot of sharing going on group work, stuff like that where you have to kind of willing to show everyone your stuff.

There’s my good and the bad of who I am and you know, listen and take advantage of what you see in other businesses, but also be willing to share with what’s going on in yours. So there’s, there’s done for you, there’s do it yourself and there’s done with you. This sounds very much like a done with you. Done with you 100%. Yeah, Danny, this has been awesome, man. Is there anything else that you, you wanna add anything else we should discuss before we wrap this up? No, just like, don’t go try and re invent the wheel like we’ve already figured it out.

Um coming off our conference, like I’m pretty just blown away and empowered by what we’ve done. And I’m kind of like, man, I really think we’re onto something here and I don’t want everybody 15 million, 18 million. I think, I think we’re starting to get on to something here. We’re starting to get on to something. Um And it’s funny because it does, it is a big number but it feels like we’re just beginning like it still feels that way. I still feel like we’re just on the start of what we have in front of us.

Um And yeah, like just everyone out there. I’m like, just if you’re growing your business and you’re in painting and you’re like at this place where all this stuff needs to be done. Um We built it just don’t be too stubborn here, like just we probably, we probably should help you. Like a lot of work has gone into this and it’s a lot easier now to pass that to somebody else than having somebody created from scratch. So how can they, how can they get in contact with you guys or apply to work with you guys?

I mean, the easiest way is our website, BT academy.com. So BT ac ad emy. com, uh we have a podcast if you want to look us up contractor evolution. So you can read that and see that anywhere. You’d like, we have a weekly publication that goes out. And, um, yeah, I know you can Google Me if you like, I’m not, you probably won’t see me and meet me right away. I’ve got a large company here. But um as far as like, yeah, if you want to reach out through linkedin or through, you know, Facebook, if you find me on there, feel free.

I’m happy to reply back and answer any questions you have. So yeah, uh Danny, appreciate your time, brother. Good, connecting again, man. Thank you. Awesome Brandon. Yeah. Talk to you later.

Keep growing.