Welcome to the Painter Marketing Mastermind Podcast, the show created to help painting company owners build a thriving painting business that does well over 103 million in annual revenue. I’m your host, Brandon Pierpont, founder of Painter Marketing Pros and creator of the popular PCA Educational Series to grow marketing for painters. In each episode, I’ll be sharing proven tips, strategies and processes from leading experts in the industry on how they found success in their painting business. We will be interviewing owners of the most successful painting companies in North America and learning from their experiences.

In this episode, Brandon Pierpont hosts the Commercial Painting Success Panel to unpack what’s actually working in commercial painting right now. Hear how top contractors target ideal clients, quickly pre-qualify, choose general contractor work versus direct-to-owner, protect margins, and manage cash flow through long cycles so you can build a healthier backlog and repeat revenue.

If you want to ask him questions related to anything in this podcast series, you can do so in our exclusive Painter Marketing Mastermind Podcast Forum on Facebook. Just search for “Painter Marketing Mastermind Podcast Forum” on Facebook and request to join the group, or type in the URL Facebook.com/groups/PainterMarketingMastermind. There you can ask them questions directly by tagging him with your question, so you can see how anything discussed here applies to your particular painting company.

Brandon Pierrepont, our lovely Brandon Pierrepont’s gonna MC that. Thanks, Daniel. Awesome, man. That was great. So guys, take, take advantage of Daniel’s offer. Reach out to Nolan Consulting Group. They’re both phenomenal companies. So we have some, some real killers, some good friends of mine who run highly successful commercial painting companies, some residential and commercial painting companies joining. Dave Scaturro. I don’t know if anyone, uh, has heard of him before. He’s joining here Alpine Painting and sandblasting. Matt Kuiper. Uh, amazing mustache. You can see that. You can’t see the bathing suit, some other stuff going on, but the mustache is good.

What’s up, Matt? We got Chris Elliott, uh, on it painting and Sean Liska of Infinity Painting. So, what’s up, guys? Thanks for joining. Hey Brandon. What’s up? What’s up? Hey, if you could, uh, this is always a really good panel. I love having you guys on it. I appreciate your time. And you guys are selling anything, just goodness of your heart. Thank you for doing this. If we could just go around, introduce yourself, uh, company name, where you’re based, and maybe, maybe what services you offer. I think it’d be more fun if we introduced someone else.

Yeah, I love that. Yeah, you know what? Introducing below me on the screen is Chris Elliott. He’s from Indianapolis, Indiana. He has a commercial and residential painting business with his wife Emily. Uh, they service a lot of HOA clients and, uh, Capex type projects, and they have an excellent operation. And if you’re in the Indianapolis or surrounding areas, that’s who you need to be using. Don’t forget my headline there. Read my headline underneath my title. What does it say? Best looking commercial. Oh, I missed that. It’s not about that.

That, that was that automatically added to my name when I logged in. It’s weird. Uh, I will introduce Sean Lista out of Chicago with Infinity Painters. He’s handsome. He’s young, he’s kicking ass, doing over 4 million in, uh, commercial sales this year, I believe, and produced about 3 million. Uh, very excited to have him join us. I’m just gonna. Let him answer every single question that’s brought my direction. So Sean was a curveball too. He, he floated. I’m excited for Sean. He’s the X factor here. So Sean, you have to, you have to, uh, you have to, uh, announce Dave.

Yeah, it’s gonna be, uh, I don’t know Dave super well. I know according to Jesse, he’s, uh, the most handsome painter, so Chris, you may have a little bit of competition there. Now, Streamyard has spoken. The results are and a pickleball player too, FYI. That, that now we know you’re lying, Dave. I thought you were a man of integrity. Oh, that’s funny. All right, appreciate that intro, Sean. I, now I have the absolute pleasure of introducing Matt Piper. Not only does he have a great mustache, I’m sad to say he has much bigger and better muscles than I have as well.

He’s an extremely fit, handsome, uh, well-manicured man. He’s a man’s man, and, uh, he also has a great Painting company, believe it or not, which I’m sure we’re gonna hear a little bit more about. Um, they’re out in Nashville, Tennessee. They focus on commercial, both repaints and through GCs and they deal with high-end residential clients as well. Nailed it. Matt, can you, can you intro Dave? I feel like Dave hasn’t gotten a, a, a real intro here. Sean kind of dropped the ball on us. I did.

I dropped it. There’s only one way to go for you from here, Sean, for those just joining us who didn’t hear Dave’s previous presentation on, uh, business planning for 23. They are out of, uh, Patterson, New Jersey area serving a lot of the East Coast. They have five divisions which are commercial. Uh, industrial, like wastewater type stuff, flooring, uh, welding, and an in-house sandblasting and finishing shop. Uh, Dave is, uh, one of the 3 owners, and he runs the commercial painting division. Nailed it. I feel like you’re, you were like reciting from a like a test there or something.

He, he’s reading my bio. Yeah, I had to Google it real quick. Love it. Guys, uh, for everyone listening, so I wanna make sure we’re tailoring this to you. That’s, that’s one of the huge benefits of this. If you’re listening, if you can put in residential, if you do basically all residential or commercial in the chat, if you do all commercial or both. So I’m really interested to see what kind of mix we have here for the listeners. I know a lot of times we’ll have pretty heavy residential and then some lighter commercial and people who want to maybe move more into commercial.

So I think, And we could potentially just kick off with that. We’re gonna cover a whole lot of stuff today. We have an hour, but let’s kick off with that. So for people who are listening who are maybe only residential, and, and they want to move more into commercial or maybe they’re 90+% residential, what advice for you guys, do you guys have for breaking into commercial? My advice has always been to start small. Start with something that you’re comfortable with. I think the, the misconception with commercial is that it’s Only large projects or that’s only complex things.

And yeah, it can get there, but there’s definitely ways to start that are small. Make sure you don’t get in over your skis from day one. Now would you suggest from a small approach also like a uh from a uh geographical standpoint to kind of like try to own a puddle instead of go jump into the to the sea yep yep, yeah, I would say for all those residential guys looking to jump into a commercial, um, have a conversation with your commercial clients about payment terms. There’s a lot of GCs out there or even direct owners that’ll make you wait.

It’s not uncommon to wait 60, 90+ days to get paid. Um, if that’s a challenge for you, talk to them about it. Discuss those payment terms upfront so you don’t get, uh, stretched out and cash flow is an issue, um, cause I’ve mentioned this many times, you start to miss payroll and you’re a sinking ship and your best people are looking for another job. I’ve done the opposite, I guess, of what they said. I’ve, I jumped, uh, feet first and, and went after big jobs right away. Um, but I guess my recommendation is just, uh, have a plan, um, you know, whether it’s payment terms or, or how you’re gonna approach the project and timelines and things like that.

Um, just think everything out so that, uh, you’re prepared. Cool. Uh, so what are you guys seeing in the commercial market right now? We’ve seen some interesting shifts in the residential. Have you guys seen similar shifts in the commercial? Is it booming? Is it, is it a little bit soft? And what are your projections for 2026? I’m a little bit. Maybe biased being in the Nashville market right now, being one of the better markets in the country. Uh, just from some great state leadership and local leadership and, and being in the Sun Belt.

There’s a lot of things that are just pushing a tailwind behind me here in Nashville. Uh, so I, I hear complaints and concerns from people in other markets of, of some softening. Uh, obviously, interest rates and lending being national issues. Uh, but we’re pretty comfortable here and, and knock on wood, in, in our market right now with Not seeing a, a drastic pullback. I think there’s, there’s definitely a little more competition. There’s been other people that have entered this market because it is hot right now. So that, that’s a concern.

Uh, but overall, I, I, 2026 is gonna be a, a, a upward trajectory. Yeah, I’m with, I’m with Matt on this one, We look at our backlog as an indication on whether or not next year is gonna be good or not, and it’s the biggest backlog we’ve ever had in company history. So that’s a real clear indication that 2026 will be a great year for our company. Um, I don’t put a lot of weight into things outside of our control like the economy. Yeah, it’s a factor, but can’t do anything about it.

So, you know, we try and create our own luck by creating relationships with our clients and really Uh, doing things that others aren’t willing to do to try and earn their business. I like that control the controllables, right? And so the, you guys are, are overall bullish, but, you know, Dave’s gonna win no matter what, doesn’t matter. Uh, what, what is the, um, I guess given that these markets are fairly different, related but fairly different. What, what are the biggest differences you guys see? I think cash flow was one you just mentioned, but between residential and commercial, maybe some differences that surprised you outside of just the cash flow.

I came from the commercial background first, so I had more surprises entering the residential market. So maybe somebody else can talk a little bit more about that. Yeah, I, I was just gonna say this has come up a lot, and it’s actually something Sean and I have talked about a lot. The nuance has been, uh, was probably one of the biggest surprises like with resident residential, like you’re, um. You can be far more like uh uh maybe rigid or regimented in your in your processes, so like everything looks very similar, like a lead becomes an estimate, estimate becomes sales, cell goes into production, and it’s all very similar with with.

With commercial, it’s very different. Like, like you have, for us, we cover 3 states, so you have geography to, to take into consideration. You have size, scale, and complexity of the job to take into consideration. And so you like, you can’t live in absol boots. You really have to like get very comfortable with the very, the different nuances, and then you have to be very intentional the way you’re building your systems and your workflows and your procedures because there is a lot of nuance in the commercial space.

And again, I’m, I’m, we only do, uh. You know, PTO, so another thing that surprised me in a positive way is like a lot of we’re working with property managers, facility managers, asset managers, and so the work that we’re going after is, is really kind of funded by a Capex cycle and so we may see behavior changes to where like. They’re doing less or like they want to see more options, but these are assets that they need to be protected. And it’s also like, you know, if you’re a multi-family or even like a commercial property, like they need to upkeep these buildings to not only protect the building, but to drive their, their business and their revenue.

And so it tends to be a little bit, uh, residential is predictable in different ways, but there’s still predictability in those capex cycles. One thing I’ll add to that too is, uh, that was a, a, a big surprise, I guess, is the, the time between a proposal being submitted and a job being approved. Um, and residential, everything is, is very quick, and I think it just emphasizes the importance of follow-ups as simple as that is, um, even if it’s been 6 months, it doesn’t mean the job’s lost or it may, more so in residential.

Yeah, well, and even more than follow up like that consistent activity because it’s spits out so much further down and there’s far less leverage to pull. Like with, with residential, I can call Brandon, like I need leads. I can turn that on. I can spend the money. I can get. That, that’s much harder on the commercial side. Yeah. That’s a, that’s an interesting point, Sean. I had never actually thought about that, about the advantage of if you start with commercial having to kind of learn to stay in the hunt and the patience there, because a big thing we’ve been talking about today is people not doing the follow-up, people quitting early, the homeowner didn’t answer the phone, they didn’t call him back the next day, therefore, the lead is dead.

Right commercially, you have to stay in that game for, for months, if not longer sometimes. So you take that same vigor and, and discipline, you apply to residential, you get a lot more, a lot more projects. Plenty of projects, 253 follow-ups, no response, and just keep, keep going, um, and, and then you sell a job. It’s happened multiple times over a year later, 2 years later. I’ve seen that perspective from residential contractors who, after a month or two are extremely frustrated with their lack of progress with commercial work.

It’s like, man, you gotta grind hard for a year in that world to even say you tried. Yeah, you have to, you have to find that patient lever and pull it, and that persistence lever and pull that one too and operate both at the same time. Yeah, I tell my commercial sales estimators or salesmen, um, 3 years for full return, to be honest. I mean, granted, you can have killers that come in there and, and, and grind, but if you really wanna create a deep locked-in relationship, it’s, it’s 3 years where you start to get that crazy traction where now you’re doing 2+ million every year, um, in sales.

Um, other than that, yeah, to Matt’s point, you have to put in the work, put in the time. It’s not common that, you know, you knock on the door one time, and they’re like, yeah, I’ll give you all my business. No, it’s, it’s, it’s based on relationships. Yeah. Sean, you, you’ve redeemed yourself. That was awesome. I, I, uh, I’m not inexperienced to panels like this. I’ve run quite a few, and I have never once thought about it that way, about the fact that the commercial is training your mind for the follow-up, the, the patience, the discipline that would translate into being just an absolute animal on the residential.

That’s awesome. Uh, guys, if you have questions, if you’re listening, you ask, you have questions, drop them in the chat. Daniel’s got a pretty big question. We’ll put it up here. Daniel, we’re gonna, this is a pretty loaded question because we’re gonna dive into this in a lot of different ways, but might as well just put this thing out. Uh, what is the best way to acquire new commercial jobs? So, I assume this is, you know, probably someone who’s mostly focused on residential breaking in. Do we want to clarify whether repay or let’s, let, let’s break it down for a couple.

So let’s, I mean, this can, everyone’s gonna want to know different things, right? So we already kind of asked the best way to break into a commercial. We, we talked about, uh, having it be, you know, on a, on a puddle rather than drowning in the ocean. So get really niched down. But I guess if you want to come up with, um, I don’t know, like a couple, a couple of niche scenarios like, hey, if I, if I want to break into a repaint, here, here’s what I’m gonna do.

I’m gonna like, Dave, you’re really good with. Picking the niche in the vertical, you’ve talked a lot about that, or, or hey, if I want to break into new construction, like, here’s what I’m gonna do. Yeah, um, I’ll jump right in. So what we do is we encourage every salesperson to create an ICP, an ideal customer profile that outlines the market that they’re in, right? So markets could be, uh, they’re big pharma, they’re an HOA, their place of worship, their commercial property manager for warehouse distribution facility.

Each one of those is markets, and then we’re setting a geographic territory. Um, we’re acquiring a list of names, um, that could be great candidates. Um, we grade those, so, you know, the, the better grades go to the top, and we are smiling and dialing, literally making cold calls, um, sending emails. If we have cell phones, we’re sending. Text messages, we’re dropping in with swag packages. We’re showing up at all the events that these people typically will show up at through a trade association, um, and we’re doing that for 3 months relentlessly with, uh, a strategy in mind to not be that pest, but we want to be persistent, um, and they don’t come off that target list.

For 3 months. So we are, we are trying our absolute best to, this is, this is the hunter approach. We’re going out and stalking our prey. Yes, there’s many other marketing strategies, you know, you want, you want, you want those, you partner with somebody like Brandon and And then he’s gonna create these SEM campaigns and create the website, and that’s, that’s the net where you’re hoping to grab somebody. But when you first start, you have to be a hunter, and you have to go out and target them and work them, and then once you finally get your foot in the door, it’s just, you’re asking for an opportunity.

You’re not asking for the business yet. But you’re asking for a, listen, we’re one of the largest painters in the area or whatever your pitch may be based on your company size. We work with all your competitors, there’s no reason why we shouldn’t be on your bid list. What is the pre-qual package that I need to fill out to get a seat at the table when you do have an opportunity for me, right? So we’re, we’re getting really specific into what the ask is and who we’re going after.

I would say technically, it’s no different working for a general contractor. You want to target who your ideal customer profile is, and that’s not every general contractor in town. That’s probably 5 to 10 GCs and run the same strategy that Dave just talked about with them. Other, you know, you’re just gonna get that opportunity to bid. You’re gonna figure out what the pre-qualification process is. And, and follow exactly the process Dave talked about. I to what Dave said. So he, he said, you know, he gave the example of hey, we’re one of the largest painting companies and that would be their USP unique selling proposition there.

If you’re a small company, you have another USB. So every company, every, any disadvantage you have can also be converted. Converted into an advantage. Maybe you’re more nimble. Maybe you can start the project right away and Dave’s crews are more, more tied up with something. Maybe you can offer a little bit more competitive pricing, as long as you don’t lose your shirt because you want to build a portfolio and a reputation. So there’s a, whatever company you are, there’s an edge. You just have to find that edge.

Um, OK, this is a, this is a cool cool question. So Jason asked, uh, biggest challenge for us as we moved into commercial has been competitive pricing. Still seems to be a bit of a guessing game slash gut feeling. Any insight here would be welcomed, pricing. I would say for, for me, pricing on the commercial side, um, for, you know, standard projects, I suppose, um, is a bit more straightforward, um, especially in working with GCs and, and just like I said, standard projects. It’s, if you’re at 80 cents a square foot or however many your production rate is, and it’s too high, um, and you feel comfortable moving down, move down if you don’t, um, You know, you got to find a, find another ideal, ideal customer, um, and maybe it’s just not a fit.

Um, like Matt said, every, every customer isn’t a fit, um, for every company. Yeah, and I think if you, if you. Stay disciplined to, this is my target, this is who I’m gonna pursue, you know, if it’s a, if it’s GC and, and specific GCs, I’m gonna go to where they are. I’m gonna learn about them. I’m gonna learn like where I need to be, whether it’s a different market vertical or whether it’s new construction or, or repaint, whatever. I think you’re gonna kind of learn where you can be pressing.

However, I would, um, Uh, caution you to, like, I think you need to have integrity with your, with your gross margin standards, especially like when you’re, if you’re, if the idea is you’re getting into it, you wanna make sure you, that gross margin is your insurance policy, that you have enough profit in the job to protect the company, but and, and protect the customer experience and really. be like a lot of the things with residential transfer over to, to commercial like direct owner very well or capex very well that customer service, that high um communication, uh, the, uh, the, the cleanliness, the organization of the jobs like, all that stuff transfers over really nicely.

Um, and so, um, if you, you, you can be very productive in that space, but you gotta make sure that you’re protecting yourself by having good profitable jobs so that should something come up, you can do what you need to do because you really have to position yourself as a partner and not just a, you know, run of the mill painter. Yeah, I, I, I couldn’t agree more. Gross profit or profitability is key, right? That’s, that’s what’s gonna keep you alive, um, and you have to make sure that you’re earning at least a certain percentage on every job.

Um, I would argue that the best way to get a competitive price is to have a good process. You should be asking. What their budget is, you’re trying to uncover it, uh, or if they’re not willing to give it, you’re gonna give them a budget and bracket and you’re talking about money, and you’re setting that up even before the sales call, right? You’re, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re addressing this issue because, you know, what I found is I can go to the same warehouse, right? And it could be 753,000 for one client and for another client, it could be 30% more, it could be 100,000. Why?

Their expectation of quality is different. And if I’m assuming things, right, oh, we’re gonna just rip out all the cough joints and put in new. I’m assuming that and I put it all in the proposal and I send it over, um, or I’m assuming they want the best possible codings or they want the top-level prep. Obviously, my price is gonna be higher. I send over the quote and I get ghosted, right? Because my numbers higher, they liked me, but they didn’t like my price. They feel bad even calling me back.

It’s just an uncomfortable scenario. So we have to avoid that completely. We have to talk about numbers. Look, I can do this job for 70,000, I could do this for 100,000. Where did you want to be at? Get them to communicate. Well, I’d much rather be around the 70 number. All right, 503, for 7, we’re not doing the joints. We’re gonna do, you know, a little bit of a lighter prep. So if you see this, you see the difference in profile, that’s gonna be there when I’m done. Like you’re OK with that?

Yeah, I’m OK with it. OK, great. So if I send you over a price for 70,000, when would you want to get this on the schedule? You know, it’s, it’s your process. You have to be talking about it. If you’re just like the, I’m just gonna send out a bunch of proposals and hope I get something, don’t be upset if your close rate’s terrible. Yeah, I agree with all that and Specifically, when working with general contractors, most of the good ones are gonna give you feedback, especially if you’ve got an inkling of a relationship with them.

It’s like, hey, I bid 5 jobs, like, are we close? Where, where have we been? And if they come back and say, hey, you’ve been double everybody else. Look at your, your bids and, and adjust your production rates to see how to actually get to that number. And you probably can’t do it. So you don’t need to be going after those kind of jobs. But if you’re, you know, 5 to 10% high every time, Run those numbers to to see if you can be a little more productive and if you wanna.

Because it’s everybody’s. Somebody’s gonna be lower because they think they can do the job faster. We’re all basically paying the same general rate. For for production, it’s they think they can do it faster or they’re not going to make money. It’s one of the one of the two. So you can, you can kind of decide whether that’s stuff you want to go after or not by doing that market research. So I think this is a pretty natural segue into this next question. How do you grade prospects?

One of my favorite ways is to talk to other trades in my area. Flooring guys, drywall guys, plumbers, who’s good to work for? Who are good people? That’s a great place to start. You don’t want to work with a bunch of jerks. Hm More stuff you could take to the residential. People want to do business with people, not nameless entities. So make your company a good brand and, and personable, um, somewhat related. What, what client, I don’t know if you guys have anything to add here. What client profiles are your most profitable and who are the least profitable?

I’m assuming it’s gonna vary by company, but what do you guys think on that? Uh, uh, yeah, to Dave’s point, I think it varies by company, and I think they’ve also, not to, to go backwards here, but I really like that idea of like being able to flex and, you know, through good discovery period and understand and understanding what your parameters are, like how uh. What, what product lines are we willing to go to? How much are we willing to adjust our quality to adapt this customer in their budget?

That’s been, you know, that was another question that we touched on is just like surprises and commercial that’s definitely very present in there and something you need to think about, um, as far as like what we’ve seen is like, yeah, like we. Like let’s just a multi-family property, profit property management, like it, it really comes down to that same, same vertical working with that same, uh, target audience, but one company versus another company and how they take care of that property and what their behaviors and decision making, um, looks like and really adjusts the profitability between, you know.

Those, those different companies. Yes. So, following up on, on basically profitability and whatnot, you know, price isn’t a fixed thing, right? It’s not like, oh, it’s not like you’re at Walmart and the, the price is the price. You’re not gonna go try to negotiate with the cashier. So there, this is a conversation. A lot of this stuff is a negotiation. So, how do you guys, do you guys have any tips for how to effectively navigate those conversations, those pricing discussions? Similar to what Dave said, it’s like educating the customer, um, I think, and, and, uh, you know, getting out of them what they really want, um.

I, I think that’s critical, and, and then providing your expert opinion as to what you recommend, um, and, and, and going from there. Yeah, like any good sales process, it’s about asking the questions to discover what their pain points are. If you’re out there trying to. Sell a premium product and you’re guaranteeing 10 years, whatever, but they’re gonna sell the building next year. They don’t care what you just told them. You, you need to ask the question to figure out what their pain point is. Yeah, I think Matt or somebody touched on this, but like, it obviously gets easier, negotiation gets easier as the relationship gets more familiar.

Um, so you can have, you can, you can have the budget conversations and you can have it, you can get a little bit more candid in what they’re trying to accomplish and, and where they need to be. So I think that definitely, um, that helps with the negotiation, more familiar, and the more experience you get with the customer. Kind of goes back a little bit to the ideal customer question. We, we tend to not have good success with a customer that’s like, hey, just send me a price.

Just send me, send me the price. It’s like, no, let’s, let’s meet, let’s discuss what you need. I, I may not even be on, on target for what you need. I’m not just gonna send you a price, but a lot of people get stuck in that. It’s like, oh, I got an opportunity to price it. I’m just, I’ll send them a price. You’re typically not successful with those. So a good customer is one who’s gonna actually meet with you, discuss the project, talk through the logistics of it.

Yeah, Matt, that’s such a good point. Um, that was actually that concept transformed our company for the better. Um, we, we used to be the type of company that when a lead came in, we jumped on. We, we wanted it. Oh my God, there’s a fish on. Let’s go. Let’s get in the boat as quick as we can. When the reality is. 70% of the fish now that are on our hook, we want to just try and get off the line because they’re not a fit for us.

You’re wasting your time. So you have to have a script, you have to have these qualifying questions right out of Jump Street, right over the phone. You’re almost trying to Get them to not do business with you. You want, you, they, they found you somehow, right? OK. So that’s good, right? Maybe they saw you have a good website, you have good marketing, um, they, they saw the email that you sent in, that’s cool. Now, let’s, let’s ask the questions. Let’s find out, are they a fit or not?

And, and You should have at least 10 questions that you’re asking them over the phone to say, yes, I’m gonna go out and meet with them or not. And there’s, there’s non-negotiables, right? So, for, for us, and Matt brought this up, if you’re not willing to spend your time to meet me on the site, and now this goes for direct to owners like Chris does. To meet me on the site, to talk about the expectations, to spend 503 minutes to walk around the space, identify what substrates we’re painting or not, what, what quality are you looking for?

What are the safety hazards that we’re gonna come, what is your timeline? Or, if you’re not willing to do that, I am not willing to take this conversation any further. I’m not gonna give you a price or, or maybe I’ll say, hey, look, based on what I heard you say, it’s probably gonna be around 50,000. You know, good luck. If you, if, if you do want to meet on site, you know, we could take it further. Or if I ask, hey, how many people have you had bid this project so far?

And they go, well, you’re gonna be the 6th person. The conversation stops. What, what, how many 6 you think you want 6 more? Like, I mean, what are you hoping for a lower number like, come on, man, can I, can I ask you a question on that so. With qualifying, like, one who’s doing it, is it like a coordinator or is it the sales rep, and then, um, where do you find the balance between Uh, appropriate qualifying process of, of a lead or an opportunity and not overqualifying, um.

Can you touch on that? Yeah, uh, we, we don’t have a coordinator position, so it is for, for this type of work. It, that’s the salesperson’s job. Because it’s so important, like they’ve said, and Uh, you do kind of have to play the. Like the 11 strike kind of thing. If it’s a new client and you’re trying to establish that relationship, you, you can do this once of the. See where it goes by sending a price, if they’re not the kind of person that’s immediately willing to meet with you, but you don’t keep repeating that mistake.

Dave, what, what do you guys? I, I’d be interested to hear what Dave has to say about that process too. Our salesmen do the qualifications. Um, we don’t have like an administrator that just automatically sets up the appointment for that reason because again, from my experience, 75, 70% of the leads that come in, we turn down, right? They’re, they’re not a fit for one or more reasons, and we are all about close rate. I want. a 40 to 2050% close rate. I’m not getting it if I go out on every lead.

In fact, I am pushing my team so hard to say no, so that they have time to target the right clients because the right clients for us have repeat business. They want to spend money with more established companies. They don’t want to deal with Dan in the van or Chuck in the truck. They want Alpine Painting that has a safety and quality manager, you know, they have very specific requirements that we could meet, right? Maybe they were working with the GC before they can meet all those.

Things, but they were paying a little bit of a higher price. They can get me direct. I think I can get better, sir. Like, we gotta find our sweet spot with our client and they’re not everybody. When, you know, we, we sandblast and paint pools, for example, right? Primarily water parks, community pools. When Mrs. Jones calls, yes, we can blast and paint her pool, but I turn it down every time, right? I turn it down every time because it’s just not worth our time. It’s just too much of a hassle.

You have to get into a rhythm where you know eventually who’s the ideal client and who’s not. If it’s a one-off, and the guy has got like this tiny little warehouse space, it’s less than 5000 square feet, it’s over 30 minutes away, I’m turning you down. I’m gonna, I’m gonna give you 10 minutes on the phone. I’m gonna tell you, you know, you’re probably in the $100,000 to $15,000 range. I’m even gonna recommend other contractors because of our relationships in PCA that I can recommend, so they’re not dead-ended, but I’m not spending my time on that lead.

Can, uh, so sorry, sorry, Brandon, I’m taking over moderator. You’re good, dude. Um, Chris, Chris really took, yeah, Chris, you’ve taken us, you, you, uh, you assume the moderator spot. I’m gonna show myself we have 1 hour. I’m gonna take 3, And Um, so Dave, so this is something we’ve been talking a lot about. So like, so, OK, so we understand, let’s say our ideal customer is a, uh, multi-family property management company, and, uh, and it’s actually, it’s specifically a regional manager. So because it’s a regional manager, we then have to, what we should likely offer regional coverage because that’s the part that’s gonna make us the best partner possible for them.

So we’re targeting regional property management. Let’s say. I’m in Indianapolis. We created an opportunity there’s, so a $33 opportunity in Columbus, Ohio, that’s 2.5, 3 hours away may not make sense, but there are situations where it does make sense. And so this is where I’m kind of going through that qualification. So if it’s a, if it’s a, a small flex space and we get a call, like, I’m gonna pass, I’m gonna call somebody in Columbus and just hand that off. But if it’s a regional property manager. That’s a small job and they want to test us and then on the backside of that could be a million dollars of annual revenue then we want to do that that job.

So what’s that look like in your company and like yeah, go ahead, yeah, you’re calling that out, right? So let’s just say to your point it’s a, it’s a new client you’ve been really trying to work your way in. You’ve recognized they meet your ICP. They’re a perfect target for you. You do the small jobs, right? You, you overextend, but you’re communicating to them, listen. I would typically turn this project down if it was anybody else, but for you, I’m gonna do it. Why? Cause I wanna earn your business.

I wanna earn your good graces. This is our sweet spot. I’ll go out for our best client like I know you’re gonna be and handle these small projects that are far away, but I’m really banking on The fact that you’re gonna give me the opportunity in this geographic location with these typical services on, on your types of properties. Is that something you can work with me on in the future. So we’re, we’re talking about that, right? Same concept as, OK, now, they, they are a company. They’re a good client, right?

Good client, you work with them, you typically get the, say 50,22+ jobs with them. And normally you tell your salesman if there’s a 225 blowjob, you’re passing on it, but if it’s for a good client, hell yeah, you’re doing it. I think Jim McBrier during our panel conversation in San Diego says, you’re keeping the fleas off your dog, right? So your client is your dog, it’s a weird analogy, it’s from the South. You’re keeping your, you’re keeping other contractors from connecting with your clients. Um, so yeah, you’re taking everything from them trying to increase the market share.

You wouldn’t necessarily do that if it was not the right fit. Yeah, awesome. It, I’m last one Brandon, you can have it back. I wanna piggyback to Sean or like, like for Dave, you’re teaching your team this, like you’re teaching your team like how do I distinguish when I do a $275 job that’s 250 hours away when I don’t. Sean, I’m assuming you’re going through all the qualification process right now. You’re handling all the leads and opportunities that are coming into your company. How are you doing that qualification and then what’s your plan as you grow and scale to hand that off and train that to someone else?

Um, right now, I take, uh, like kind of like Matt’s approach, where I’ll, I’ll bid one thing, as long as it’s a service offering, you know, we, we can do, um, regionally works. Um, and, you know, it’s not a tire kicker. I’ll bid one job and I’ll meet with them. Um, I wouldn’t be very inclined to do a quote if I can’t at least, at least meet with the customer, um, on site. Um. Unless it is a regional person, um, that isn’t on site and can’t make it or something like that, a one-off.

But that’s, that’s kind of my plan. I’m willing to get my foot in the door with someone to have the conversation, meet them on site, um, to learn more about them, um, and, and go from there. That’s how I would plan on doing it, but I may learn and, and, and change. So I’m gonna, I’m gonna put something on there. I’m interested to get your guys’ thoughts on this. So, one of the issues that I see with a lot of painting companies is they want to overly pre-qualify.

And I think it’s, it’s almost a little bit of a, uh, of a lazy tactic. And I think, I think there’s, it’s possible to take the information being given here and then pull it out of context. So when Dave Scaturro is saying that he says no to 250% of his lease, he’s been doing this for 22026 years. And so Dave and, or, or Chris, I know you guys talk about how you need to basically just be, be willing to eat SHIT for a year, right? So, I think so many people they kind of put their foot in and commercial, it’s like business owners in general, right?

You want to start a company, I tried for a month, boohoo, like it didn’t go that well. It, it’s, they want to kind of dip their feet in a commercial, which is essentially a brand new business and they want to start out. They’re disqualifying everybody or, or they don’t want to follow up or, or whatever it is. How do you guys kind of handle that? Like, hey, you need to go in and you need to get your reps, and you need to actually identify where you can win, and then start to kind of whittle down versus, hey, you also don’t want to get taken advantage of.

Obviously, number one rule businesses don’t go out of business, so you don’t want to bid yourself, you know, right into bankruptcy. But how do you guys rectify that for somebody, because I, I don’t want to mislead people here, and they start commercial and they say, well, I’m gonna say, I’m gonna say no to 53%. Or maybe you need to say yes to a lot more so you know what you’re doing. How do you guys rectify that? I think to not take Dave out of context and, and correct me if I’m wrong here, Dave, is you’re saying no, because they are not your, they don’t fit your profile of your customer.

It’s not because it’s not, it’s, you do that kind of work like you were talking about the homeowner with the pool. But your strategy as a business, same as ours, is repeat customers. Does this, does this client have more than one building? If they do, that’s who we want. So he’s saying no. It would be like if somebody called me for a, a large epoxy flooring job. We do some epoxy floors. It’s kind of something we dabble around with. But I’m gonna say, uh, you know, that’s probably not ideal for us right now because it’s not our kind of project or our kind of client.

So you’re saying no to stuff that doesn’t fit. And Dave had the time, exposure and experience to determine who he can say no to. So I think as you’re getting at, it’s like if you were starting your career, it’s like go experiment, go, go like try something and fail. Do I love this? Am I, am I good at it? So yes, I should do more of it, or this feels awful, I’m against the current. This is, this feels like more work than it should be. So you don’t want to do that, right?

So there’s a level, there’s, there’s a. Bit of experimenting that has to happen before you can determine this is my ideal customer and I gotta say no to I’m gonna say no to most of everything else so that I can better serve this customer, but there’s some experimenting that has to happen and what I think what we’re saying is like start that close and start that in a uh be very mindful and intentional on that and so that you don’t get yourself in trouble while you’re doing that experimenting.

That, that’s true, yeah. And also, I think a lot of it comes down to time. Um, whether you have no reps, 25 reps, 23 reps, you have a limited amount of time. So if, uh, if you have a bunch of leads, and you don’t have time to service them all, then you overqualify them. Uh, if, if you have plenty of time, then you can go out on every site. I, I think that’s also such a good point, wide the niche down. You only have so much, like we have a finite amount of research, resources.

We only have so much time, so much money, so much energy. If I, if I don’t, if I just like buckshot approach, I’m going to, I’m gonna burn through that those resources very quickly. So if I can take more of a sniper laser approach, then I can be far more targeted in in the way that I’m using my resources, so I don’t burn, burn through them. Love that said. Awesome. Thanks, guys. So, this is uh, a good question. Preston is asking if you guys have some good pre-qualification questions.

Yeah, for, for me, I’ll just go over them. Everyone’s gonna have different ones, um. Number 23, it’s like, when are you looking to do this work? Like I always know roughly what my schedule is, so I know when my manpower is available. If they’re like, yeah, I need to start next week. And I know I’m 3 weeks out, that’s a deal breaker, right? So I can’t help you out. I’m sorry. Um, is this a union or non-union project? For us, if it’s a union project, I’m not a fit.

We’re a marriage shop, so that’s not gonna work for us. Um, Are they an out of state GC? If you’re an out of state GC, I’m probably not bidding for you. You’re like, you gotta warm me up real hard in order for me to get my, get my way in with you, um. You know, if it’s uh, a very small project that’s out of our service area, um, if it’s not a market that we service or not a service that we provide or a residential property, right?

All these things are, are deal breakers. You know, to my earlier point, how, how many, um, is, is price a motivating factor for you? Yeah, yeah, price is the most important, the cheapest price is gonna get this job. Thank you so much for the opportunity. I’m, I’m not a good fit for you. Here’s, here’s somebody else that you might want to call. They typically have lower numbers than me. Um, you know, all, those are a couple, but there’s, there’s so many, and they, they should be specific to your business, to your market, you know, and they should make sense to you.

Um, go and chat, ask, ask Chat, put in information about your company, who’s your ideal client, blah, blah, blah, and then say, what are some qualifying questions I should be asking? Might get you start. Yeah, and there’s for taking a trick from the residential side. I know a lot of sales people ask the question like, hey, have you hired a professional service company for your home before? How did that go? A lot of these clients are professional buyers. They are working with trades companies every day. So you spin that question of, hey, I’m sure you work with, uh, some other great trade, you know, your roofer.

Uh, what are some things that you like about your current roofer? And then they start talking about what’s important to them, so you know some of the better follow-up questions to ask. Matt, you’re slick, man. Once in a while you’re slick. I like it. Let’s get to we’re talking a lot about negotiation, how to handle that discussion, how to know what projects you want to pursue and don’t want to pursue. Let’s talk about lead generation for a second. So for marketing channels for you guys for generating these new leads, uh, which ones are, are working best for you right now and has that mix kind of changed over the last year?

Google search engine. Stuff has still been number one for true like cold lead generation. Obviously, the best is still boots on the ground, pick up the phone, send the email, like that’s, that’s number one. But as far as trad kind of traditional marketing, uh, Google and SEO has been key for us. You know, we, we try to take it, you know, this is something that we’ve grown and evolved into, but we take a, we try to take a, um, a pretty Balanced approach so we have, uh, we have cold outreach happening, um, we have some marketing happening to like, you know, uh, you know, pay per click we have business development happening, we have brand awareness efforts happening, association participation that we’re going to where our, our ideal customer is.

We’re staying very involved. We typically come in on a high sponsorship, um, to help build the brand awareness. And we’re, we’re staying, uh, active. We have a goal in our company of 100% participation. So if we’re a part of an association and they have an event, we’re there and, um, and so that’s where our opportunity to uh create relationships and then nurture those relationships. So we try to be very balanced uh between outreach, marketing, advertising, brand awareness, and, um, prospecting business development effort. Also, again, why it’s like good to have a target, cause you try to do that for too many targets, um, you get lost in it real quick.

Yeah, for sure. All right, Bill asked, I’ve heard that we should stay away from new construction. What are the pitfalls of new construction? It depends on your business structure. Um, I’m not a big new construction fan, and Matt loves it, right? So we got two guys that are both successful, different business models, and it’s really working well for Matt, and in the past, we decided to kind of Get out of that market. We’re not really targeting it. We have a couple of GCs that we work with, we have good relationships with them, but I’m not targeting new ones, um, necessarily, and that’s on the commercial space.

Like, for example, in the industrial arena, I deal mostly with GCs. So it’s, I think it depends on a lot of factors, what your, what your ideal market is, who, who you, who you You think you can provide best value to in turn get the highest profit, that may be through GCs, right? Cause there’s reoccurring revenue streams. You may have a great GC in your area that’s constantly building stuff. Your market might be, you know, a lot of new stuff coming up and you should be working with GCs where in other markets, it’s really slow.

There’s not a lot of new builds and maybe that’s not the ideal market. So I think it. Depends. I think the challenge with GCs and I’ll, I’ll just lay this out there right now is they have the leverage, right? So they have the leverage, they’re, you’re signing their contract. If shit goes sideways, they got you by the balls, and depending on what you signed, you could be in a really bad position. I’ve had close friends that had to close their business because They said that you’re not gonna meet the schedule, even though the schedule is pushed back based on the GC and I now need to bring in additional labor to try and hit that schedule, and I don’t care how much it costs because you’re paying the bill, right?

It’s coming out of how much I pay you, and then before you know it, it’s like, oh my God, this like, I just lost a ton of money on this project. That could be the opposite. You could be, make a killing cause the guy is like, hey, look, uh, we got a change order on this and he’s working with me no matter what. So we’re gonna put in a high number cause I’m just getting a percentage of yours and I don’t really care how much you charge, go for it.

And you can make some money back cause I know I tightened you up early on on that and, and you can end up doing really well on the job. So it’s really, it’s dependent on your company, your strategy, the partner. A lot of factors I’d say probably the number one pitfall to watch out for is, uh, it can be a scheduling nightmare if you’re not a good focused scheduling company and have flexibility. Uh, cause like Dave said, they, they’re running their show, you’re just a little part of it.

So if they say, hey, you know, you guys need to be out here in 2 weeks, and you get your crew lined up to be there in 2 weeks, and then a day before you’re supposed to be out there, they call and say, oh no, the drywall guys are behind, it’s gonna be another 2 weeks. You have to be able to then adjust quickly. And if you’re not ready for that, it can be a pitfall. Matt, you said something in your presentation at the PCA that I thought was very good about scheduling, um, with GCs.

It’s like, yeah, scheduling is hard. Get over it and figure it out or don’t do the work with it. So, um, I, I think that was gonna be my point is scheduling is why I personally don’t work with GCs, um. But yeah, to each, everyone has their own, their own avenue. We just, we just have a different. Mindset in our company that we’re a scheduling company that happens to paint. And we, we just believe that from day one. So it’s, it’s not hard for us because that’s just what we decided we were gonna be.

But if we were primarily. A craft-based painting company. And we weren’t willing to be flexible with our schedule. It pissed me off every day, you know. What, what problem do you love to solve, cause it’s just, it’s a slightly different game, right? Like you, if you’re gonna be new construction, you better be good at contracts. You better be, you know, good at, uh, uh, you have access to some capital, and, and it’s just a, yeah, it’s a bit of, it’s a bit of, bit of a different game.

So have a good attorney. Yeah, we, I actually just had lunch with my attorney yesterday just to review new contracts with general contractors for 2026. Just, hey, what do we want to redline? What’s worth fighting for? What’s fine, just signing, and we do that two or three times a year. We’re just making sure our, our T’s are crossed and our I’s are dotted when it comes to all this construction language and, and you gotta have a good attorney on your side. So you’re smart enough to read those contracts.

That’s why I stayed at the DTO side. I don’t read them. I hire somebody that reads them. There you go. So this is always a, a fun question. So things go wrong. We had poor Henry earlier today talked about losing $33,000 due to some insurance snafu. What has been your biggest commercial project nightmare? And how did you handle it? Hm. You stay in business long enough, you’re definitely gonna get punched in the face. Yeah, I, I think I touched on it a little bit in my presentation, um.

That big food processing facility that we did up in Ohio that Chris has been to. Um, and, and I think the challenge was, it was right in the middle of, of me being out with cancer, and that was a very complicated project. My team was not necessarily Experienced enough to handle it fully on their own at that time. And we performed really well from a production standpoint, but not from an efficiency standpoint, and ended up taking a pretty big loss on that job. Maintained the relationship, but took a pretty big financial hit.

Mm. Still hurts. Just cancer, Matt. Yeah, you know, I, I thought you were this tough guy and then cancer comes along and it affects you. No, it’s, uh, it’s not probably a joking matter. OK, um, moving on. I want to hear somebody else’s terrible story. Don’t. Who else has a terrible story, Chris? I know, I know you’ve been rocked, Sean and Dave. Dave, there’s no way you, you’re, you’re too pretty to not have had someone come after you give you, I could give you 100 residential stories that I have PTSD over, more so than when I went to combat, uh, but commercial, like we’ve been, we’ve been very like.

We’ve been very, very careful to not, to not grow it too quickly. Like we, our target customers are those regional property managers, property managers, we see them at these events, we get repeat business from them over and over. We got to be very, very careful not to poison that well so we can keep going back to it. So we, we have bid our jobs very profitable. We’ve been very willing to lose work so that we, that we win the right jobs and we win them at a profit that we’re comfortable with, so that when things come up, we can absolutely take care of our customers and we’d be careful not to let ourselves grow uh too quickly so that we can be well prepared when we want to further scale our commercial division.

So we’ve actually, we haven’t had a nightmare project yet, but, uh, I have plenty about residential if we have extra time. John, Dave, All mine are related to um when other trades are involved and I don’t want to bash that too much, um, being on what we’ve talked about. It’s, it’s exactly what Matt said, it’s uh scheduling related and uh I guess I just don’t accept it the, the way I should. Yeah, I would say, uh, so there’s been several projects that have gone south and there’s a lot of different reasons, but I think the reoccurring reason that you’re in a bad project is typically cause you have a bad partner, right?

You’re, you’re not aligned on your values, um, or there’s, there’s something that happened along the process that, you know, you’re off, right? And usually, from my experience, it blows up right. Towards the end of the job, when it’s time to get paid and they’re frustrated, maybe that’s a move that they have where they’re trying to get you to come down on their numbers so they’re not, they’re gonna find problems on the job. And it doesn’t matter how many touch-ups you do, they’re not happy and they don’t wanna pay.

And you know, those, those are the challenging ones and, you know, we write those off, right? We write those off as a learning experience and we write those off as we’ll never do business with them again, right? We’re gonna get through it. It’s never worth going to court most of the time, right? Cause The amount of money and the amount of time that you take, it’s just like it takes you away, the the the mental effort involved, so it’s just like we’re writing it off, they’re on the do not contact list in our CRM and we’re learning from it, and we’re trying to ask questions again in that qualifying process so that we don’t get into a relationship with another crazy person.

So good. Yep. Yeah, I think when, uh, when, whenever, whenever anything goes wrong on, on my end, you got to solve whatever the solution is, you know, whatever the problem is, but then you have to go back and diagnose how you got there, you know, so whether it’s a lot of times I find that it’s, it’s mismatched expectations. Sometimes, Dave, you’re saying they’re strategically maybe waiting till the end. Well, then, how did you, how’d you missed the red flag? You know, was there maybe not enough due diligence on that person or that company because maybe they’re a bad actor, but usually it’s something pretty early on.

Um, and so you go back and you get, you get better at adding them to that 70% of people that you weed out with those pre-qualifying questions to avoid that in the future. So mistakes are gonna happen. One thing to add to, I think, uh, with both Dave and, and Matt’s story, uh, it’s, I think it’s important to emphasize that they got through the project and got the job done. Um, Just integrity wise and, and protecting your name, your business’s name, um. Especially we’re all talking about the repeat business being the key one.

You don’t want bad um reputation going around and, and at least you did your side of the bargain. If they didn’t uphold theirs, then shame on them, but you did yours. That is key in the repeat business world for sure. Yeah, even if, even if they’re dragging you through the mud, you know, try and keep your head up, like if, if I feel like it’s going south, I normally don’t get really combative, you know, I’m very matter of fact, I’m very strategic and You know, how to come with an outcome, even if it’s looking like they’re not gonna be happy.

I’m, I’m trying to get out with the least amount of damage and not uh making it ugly, because once you get ugly, it gets personal. Once it gets personal, it’s not about the money or the job anymore. It’s about they want you to lose and they need to win, and then it’s just like, oh my God, so I’m, I’m, I’m trying to find the fastest way to get out. Even if I take a little bit of an L, we’re not making the same margin, it’s OK. It’s a learning experience, we don’t lose, we learn, and we’re moving on to the next.

Yeah, that’s a good point too. The opportunity cost is something that a lot of, especially early, younger business owners don’t really think about. What’s the opportunity cost of your time can be, the, the, the more successful you become, the higher that is. Um, someone asked, so Rick asked, do y’all do a subcontractor model for the paint crew? We do primarily. Same. Anyone doing doing W-2s. Yeah, we, we do a hybrid model, so we have, um, right now it’s about 25% in-house and 75% subcontractors. I’d like it to be closer to 50/50.

Um, my director of ops likes subcontractors better providing you have the right sub, um, but yeah, uh, it works for us, especially because we’re seasonal like many other people, you know, you have. You have bigger months where you need to ramp up your manpower in the summer, in the winter, it slows down, it becomes an HR nightmare if you have to hire and fire a lot of people in a short period of time, so subs are easier for that. Subs also have some downsides, a little less control um over means and methods and quality.

You have to be on it, you have to have better processes and, and PMs to manage that work. Yeah. Cool. And then, uh, I, I want to, I want to wrap up with this. So if attendees walk away from this panel with one takeaway, so something that they can use to grow their commercial painting business or maybe successfully start their commercial painting business in 2026, what would it be? Don’t try to do it alone. Do it with the network of people that are here through the PCA through, I’m not gonna plug any other ones cause I’ll get shot by my wife.

But There, there’s plenty of options out there. Everybody people have done this before. Don’t, don’t try to reinvent the wheel. Ask, ask for advice and ask for help. Yeah, Sean said earlier on the call, have a plan, and I love that, right? Have a plan. The best way to create a plan if you’re new is hook up with a coach, hook up with somebody that has done this before, that has a track record of success, that can tee you up. I mean, yes, you’re gonna pay money upfront, but you’re gonna save so much money down the road.

Um, I plugged Nolan the last time. They’re the coach that we use. They’re excellent. They help us create the structure, lay out the plan, we communicate it to the team, we hold them accountable. Now great things are happening, right? Cause we had that clear plan. Otherwise, you’re just, you’re, you’re shooting shotguns like Chris said, and it’s like maybe you hit something, maybe you don’t use a lot of resources and you didn’t get very far. I, I was gonna say the same thing Sean mentioned earlier, I have a plan, so I’ll just take it more to like vision, so a little further down the road, like, I think that you need to, whether you’re doing residential, commercial, new construction, like what whatever your focus is, it needs to make sure it aligns with your, your vision.

You need to look at, look 3 to 5 years into the future. What’s the type of company I want to build? You need to have real clarity in that and real conviction to it, so you can say disciplined, reverse that engineer, reverse engineer that back to a plan. Pick your plan. Feel free to go experiment out a little bit as you find your ideal customer, but try to stay as true to that point as possible and, and make sure that all your actions and behaviors aligned to that plan.

And then I think with commercial it’s really because we’re talking about a much longer time horizon, it’s really important that you’re, that you’re finding measurement and tracking for the behaviors and the action that you’re looking for and a little less on trying to measure that result because it’s everyone’s mentioned. That result is just further down the road when you do commercial. And that teed me up. I was gonna say consistency. Uh, whatever you’re doing, even if it’s 3 calls a day that you’re making to that ideal customer profile, that you’re gonna sell something if you just do 3 calls a day over the course of a year.

Um, but the minute you let up, uh, that, that long uh time between the, um, project cycle, um. You know, it, it, it can hurt you, so just the, the consistent, consistent efforts. No matter how small. Dave, Matt, Sean, Chris, I appreciate you guys. Sean, I don’t care what Chris says about you. I don’t believe it anymore. I think you’re OK. So thanks for hopping in here. Sean is the only person on this channel that I haven’t known for years. Uh, but Sean, you’re all right, man.

You’re all right.

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Hey there, painting company owners. If you enjoyed today’s episode, make sure you go ahead and hit that subscribe button. Give us your feedback. Let us know how we did. And also if you’re interested in taking your painting business to the next level, make sure you visit the Painter Marketing Pros website at PainterMarketingPros.com to learn more about our services. You can also reach out to me directly by emailing me at Brandon@PainterMarketingPros.com and I can give you personalized advice on growing your painting business. Until next time, keep growing.